Russian prints just that good, no fade. But we hardly discuss them

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Hi all,

As my nature of works, I have now moved to another city, Sofia in Bulgaria.

You know that Bulgaria was once under the USSR so many historical artefacts related to the Soviet era, that include 8mm.

I was today in a second hand store and found Russian super 8mm and standard 8mm. Price is not that expensive. For a 200' color and silent is EUR/USD 10.

I took those in color and found they were no fade at all. At the same store there were also Marketing Films and they have faded to red. So say those films were stored at the same room and climate, we can easily say that these Russian prints are low fade. But we hardly say that.

I believe during the USSR era, they would not import Kodak, AGFA or Fuji as those brands were related to western side. So can I say that Russia has actually developed low fade film stocks but only not famous among us?

Below is the film I took to check.


cheers,
winbert

[Osi Osgood]

Totally possible for them to have a low fade of they're own. You're right, Russian prints aren't talked about much, but they are rarely seen outside of Russia. Occasional prints show up on ebay over here. I'd love to find a super 8 feature print of "Gorky Park" on Super 8, on low fade Russian film stock 😀

[Kilian Henin]

I thought the Soviets used ORWO stock, which was actually seized Agfa stock from East Germany. I don't know if they ever developed their own film stock.

[Robin Khlop]

I have a Svema print on 16mm, which I believe is a Ukrainian film stock. It has a little fade, but the colors are holding up surprisingly well.

[David Kilderry]

Many of my Walton Super 8 cartoons from the UK seem to also have very good colour. I was checking some Tom & Jerry cartoons yesterday and the Walton ones have excellent colour, the same titles from MGM (Ken films) are completely faded.

The Russian films could be on Orwo stock, as it was produced in East Germany at the time and had very good fade resistance. Here is a 1960s 16mm Orwo print of the Glenn Ford western The Sheepman. Not perfect but so much better than a 60 year old Eastman stock print.

[Brian Fretwell]

You never know what the Russians would have tken out of Germany after the war, plant, formulae, workers etc their stock may have been an Agfa or Gaevert copy made on the orifginal equipment for all we know. Some of their 35mm still cameras were direct copies of German ones.

[David Kilderry]

You never know what the Russians would have tken out of Germany after the war, plant, formulae, workers etc their stock may have been an Agfa or Gaevert copy made on the orifginal equipment for all we know. Some of their 35mm still cameras were direct copies of German ones.

We do know. After the war the former Agfa plant ended up in East Germany. At the end of WW2 all German patents were called open. So the the East German factory continued making the Agfa film stocks under the Agfa name. When the Agfa company set up in West Germany, the East German plant changed it's name to Orwo to save confusion. Agfa changed its film type, yet Orwo kept on producing the old film, that had better low fade properties.

[Juergen Kellermann]

The Agfa & ORWO company history is explained quite well in WikiPedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORWO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agfa-Gevaert

There are also several well-researched German-language books. I also wrote an article for the Australian film collector's magazine REEL DEALS, a few years ago, summarising some of the information...
https://www.adelaide.edu.au/director...e;field=data;i d=28612;m=view

I have to correct David about the history...
The town of Wolfen (in Eastern Germany, i.e. what was to become the GDR) was the original place of the Agfa company. After the war, the Soviets disassembled the plant and took it to the Ukraine, where it was the foundation of the Svema film factory. But there was enough equipment left in Wolfen, or it was re-built, to start production again after the war.

First film from Wolfen in East Germany and from the new West German Agfa plant in Leverkusen were both labelled Agfa, but in 1964, the East German production changed the name to OrWo (= Original Wolfen). The West German product retained the name Agfa, which soon afterwards became Agfa-Gevaert, when Agfa and the Belgian Gevaert company merged.

In my experience, ORWO colour always holds up quite well. But Soviet films can be hit and miss: Occasionally the film stocks, e.g. Svema or Sovcolor, are ok, but most of the time they are faded. The Soviets also had a printing process, similar to Technicolor (but a bit more crude) and I have 2 or 3 standard-8mm films that were printed that way and have very nice colour.

The Soviets also used ORWO film stock for most of their exports, i.e. propaganda films and newsreels that were sent to other countries. They obviously knew that the East German stock was of better quality that their own product. ORWO was also used quite a lot in other Eastern European countries. The GDR also exported ORWO film stock to Western country in exchange for hard currency.

Following up on my article, mentioned above. In it I wrote that it is not possible to date ORWO film stock. This is not correct, as I was made aware of a while ego...
The ORWO code consists of a letter and a number, but it repeats itself every 10 years. The letter designates the month ("A"=Jan., "B"=Feb., "C"=Mar., etc.). The number afterwards is the last digit of the year (e.g. "4" for 1994, 1984, 1974, etc.). So "F8" would be film stock made in June of a year ending in "8" (1968, 1978, 1988 - but not 1958, as ORWO was established later, in 1964).

Agfa, however does not have a date code and is impossible to date.

[Dominique De Bast]

You never know what the Russians would have tken out of Germany after the war, plant, formulae, workers etc their stock may have been an Agfa or Gevert

Gevaert ls (was) actually Belgian, not German. 😉

[Brian Fretwell]

Gevaert ls (was) actually Belgian, not German. 😉

Ahh I thought they merged at some time, but didn't know when. I have seen stock albeeld Agfa Gevaert.

[Mike Newell]

Gevaert ls (was) actually Belgian, not German. 😉

Its a fair bet that is where the Russians got their technology.