Elmo 800’ reels won’t grip film

[David Monard Ice]

Over my years of collecting, I’ve gotten several films that were mounted on Elmo 800 foot plastic reels, the type that came with the projectors made out of white plastic.

I guess after being used to store film for decades they’ve gotten “stretched out“ and will no longer grip film, if used as a take up reel. In other words, the film just won’t catch, and you have to tape down the film for it to stick.

Any suggestions for how to get these otherwise flawless reels to grip film again?

Thanks!

[Chip Gelmini]

Stay away from tape. That's the worst you can do.

Simply wrap the leader around the hub and secure it by friction.

There should also be a open slot inside the reel hub if you want to go that route.

[Leon Norris]

Or you can put the film in the reel slot. A lot of times it has to do with the film itself. If the film droops than it will not catch. I had this happen to me.

[Steve Klare]

Acetate leader is usually stiff enough to hit the reel and wrap around.
Polyester leader gets Oh So Close and then bends under its own weight and heads for the table!

I set a glass of port behind one of my machines and threaded up. The leader came across and dove into my glass!

i trimmed the port-soaked film and tossed it!
-but I finished my wine!

(-a little Film-Guard is Good for digestion!)

[Shane C. Collins]

(a little Film-Guard is good for digestion) now that's a funny one Steve

I have two projectors that I regularly use. The Eumig Mark S 709, and the Elmo GP Deluxe. The Elmo is automatic all the way to the take-up reel. Usually, with the nice take-up reel I am using, it catches the film every time. But, there are occasions I need to help it along. I usually push it up as it's nearing the reel. This usually requires a quick reaction on my part. The Eumig Mark S 709 is a semi-auto-loading projector. It loads the film through the gate, but the rest is up to me. So by the time I manually thread the film through the gate, and to the take-up reel I hit the selector, bam loaded! But, many take-up reels I've used over the years, either do it right or not at all. The best take-up reel I ever used was from a very simple Bell & Howell Super 8 projector. It was a black all metal take-up reel. It was designed with little sprockets that moved on the reel. As the film advanced to the reel, these teeth would grab the leader film. It honestly worked every time!

[Steve Klare]

Well, I never put a wine glass back there again! There's no benefit in making the mistake if I don't learn from it!

I've learned a few other things over the years:

I put the film boxes in front of the machine that its reel is threaded on. Especially with my Eumig 800 series, there is a blast of cooling air out the back of the machine and if I put the box in back, it often ends up on the floor! This is kind of the no man's land of home projection. I keep it just for the take-up reel.

I project over the surface of the dining room table: step one of any show is to find the salt and pepper shakers and get them OUT of the beam! My wife has this annoying ceramic swan: looks exactly like the Loch Ness Monster up on screen!

Thennnn there is the occasional pair of candlesticks! ("What?...Are you expecting a blackout?! -It's like Thomas Edison was never born!")

It's one of the things I like about 16mm: the lens is mounted that much higher and all this stuff doesn't so easily get in the way!

Then again there are the cats...from now on, we will only have white cats: they can run across the beam all they want, as long as we stay on the bright side of the cat!

An old friend of mine added acetate leader at the head of all his films, in part to offer something sacrificial when threading went sour, in part so the take-up would catch the leader every last time.

[Chip Gelmini]

Some of these posts (HERE) are really making me smile. I don't want to offend anybody so I won't go in to detail. But it is good to see the forum is being used for a good reason. To ask questions and get good answers. We are all learning, naturally!

[Chip Gelmini]

Shane mentions a small take up reel from Bell & Howell. I know exactly the one he writes of. Although only 400 foot capacity it was a very unique design. The plastic with the pins was wrapped around the hub and it spun separate from the reel flanges and hub. The higher RPM of the motor driving the shaft meant the flanges and hub could turn faster than the payout of the film. This was noticed at the very start of the reel. As it filled with footage, it would slow down but inside the take up arm the RPM of the gears was much higher.

We had similar reels in the theaters running 35mm. The design was used with 6000 foot reels (similar to a super 8 1200 foot) and it prevented the film from snapping due to the enormous torque at 90 feet per minute. When these reels were full they weighted about 55 lbs! Whereas in 35mm it was reels 1-2-3 @ 2000 foot compared to a 1200 foot super 8 reel running reels 1-2-3 @ 400 foot. These large 35mm take up reels were referred to as "floating hub".

The take up reel Shane refers too was a very unique design in that it was part of the take up clutch system. What killed it and became it's early discontinued from production: If some used crank rewinds with a brake adjustment on the left crank - the same reel on the right crank would spin freely but no film would wind on to it. IF they were using the same floating hub reel to rewind the film for a second showing.

In theaters a reel on the top of the projector would go down to the bottom for take up and then over to the rewind bench for rewinding. It would then become the next reel to be rewound on. It made life for the projectionist very simple while running weekly movies. If a film collector such as myself bought enough of the same kind of reel this can be done at home, too. If you adopt this method you should label the leaders of the films but NOT the reel flanges. I've been doing this for many years and I can't see myself doing it any other way, period!

[Shane C. Collins]

Shane mentions a small take up reel from Bell & Howell. I know exactly the one he writes of. Although only 400 foot capacity it was a very unique design. The plastic with the pins was wrapped around the hub and it spun separate from the reel flanges and hub. The higher RPM of the motor driving the shaft meant the flanges and hub could turn faster than the payout of the film. This was noticed at the very start of the reel. As it filled with footage, it would slow down but inside the take up arm the RPM of the gears was much higher.

We had similar reels in the theaters running 35mm. The design was used with 6000 foot reels (similar to a super 8 1200 foot) and it prevented the film from snapping due to the enormous torque at 90 feet per minute. When these reels were full they weighted about 55 lbs! Whereas in 35mm it was reels 1-2-3 @ 2000 foot compared to a 1200 foot super 8 reel running reels 1-2-3 @ 400 foot. These large 35mm take up reels were referred to as "floating hub".

The take up reel Shane refers too was a very unique design in that it was part of the take up clutch system. What killed it and became it's early discontinued from production: If some used crank rewinds with a brake adjustment on the left crank - the same reel on the right crank would spin freely but no film would wind on to it. IF they were using the same floating hub reel to rewind the film for a second showing.

In theaters a reel on the top of the projector would go down to the bottom for take up and then over to the rewind bench for rewinding. It would then become the next reel to be rewound on. It made life for the projectionist very simple while running weekly movies. If a film collector such as myself bought enough of the same kind of reel this can be done at home, too. If you adopt this method you should label the leaders of the films but NOT the reel flanges. I've been doing this for many years and I can't see myself doing it any other way, period!

Yep, as you described the action of the Bell & Howell take-up reel, I can see it in my head as I type this! I remember when I first used it, I wasn't sure what to think to be honest. It moved rather quickly until more of the film was on the take-up reel. It was a slick design for sure! Seemed to work well with the sprocketless Bell & Howell model it came with. The metal it was pressed from was very strong as I remember. I never saw another one like it in the years since I first owned it. I'm not even sure what I did with it, or where it ended up!