Eumig 824 Threading and Film Gate Questions

[John Fehling]

Hi, I am new to the forum. Recently I noticed the group helping with a new threading issue for a Eumig 824 related to a part that came off. I have recently acquired a Sankyo Sound 762 which is working great and also a Eumig 824 from younger relatives of the original owner that has some issues. This seems to be the place to try to get assistance.

The 824 looks great but has a few issues. Unfortunately it became separated from the regular 8 gate piece and it doesn't look like those are anywhere to be found. First question. Besides the framing being off due to size differences between Reg8 and Super8 frame sizes can I run Reg8 through the Super8 gate without other issues? Next. It doesn't seem that the claw pin is working correctly as the frames do not "catch" and just roll by during projection. I will see if adjusting the back film plate gate screws helps that. The fine single pin seems intact and not bent.

The more important issue seems to a broken or worn part of the lower pathway to create the film loop. When pushing in the threading mechanism the film does not proceed through the front plastic guide but just wraps around the white/yellow guide right before this mechanism. It appears that the leading edge of the black plastic guide is worn or broken. I will include photos. Can someone take a photo of this part of a working 824 so I can see what it is supposed to look like. Then I can see if I can add a bit of material to direct the film correctly or locate an intact part. This or other threading issues must have been going on for a while as I retrieved many broken film segments that had fallen into the innards.

When I tested out the projector it was fussy to load as above but at least once I managed to run a Super8 reel out the back. The sound system and general functions seem to be intact.

Any assistance is appreciated. And if anyone knows where to find a Reg 8 gate please let me know.

Thanks, John

[Janice Glesser]

Hi John...You can't run Std. 8mm film using the Super 8mm gate. Std. 8mm film has larger sprocket holes...hence the need for a separate gate. Missing gates is common with the 824 since it doesn't have a compartment to store the gates like for example the Eumig Mark S 810D has. Finding a gate is very difficult, but not impossible. Post a wanted thread and see if you get a response.

[Brian Fretwell]

Also the standard 8 gate (rear portion) has the divert to get the longer loop for the different sound separation on standard 8 so sound films would be very out of sync.

[John Fehling]

Thanks Janice and Brian. If I'm understanding correctly the construction of the standard 8mm gate causes the film to go around the extra pathway that is part of the automatic loading lever as the sound is located on a different part of the film compared to Super8. So for Super8 the film just wraps around the lighter colored semicircle guide right below the gate. Also the standard 8 gate positions the film differently so the larger sprocket holes line up properly with the claw pin. That is why regular 8 won't work with the Super8 gate.

Yes I'll try to locate the regular 8 gate. Janice per the manual I think there is a slot on the inside of the front cover for the gate not being used to be stored. Unfortunately it is missing. At least I have the Super8 sprocket wheels but not the loose holder for those.

I have now managed to thread Super8 fairly consistently so it doesn't bunch up right before the sound head entry point. When I adjust the frame line knob by turning and tightening it clockwise it doesn't seem to change framing but does tighten up the film so it doesn't clatter as it goes around the semicircle guide and that stabilizes the sound. But then the picture just rolls like the claw isn't catching the film. If I loosen the frame knob (turn counter clockwise) the picture is now stable but the film and sound clatter returns. What would you suggest I try to adjust next, the Super8 gate grub screws?

Looks like I almost have a functioning projector for Super8 with sound. And the sound fortunately is clear without a major hum.

Thanks for your help.
John

[Janice Glesser]

John Fehling Yes there is a compartment for the gates...but not for the sprocket gears that have to be changed also. Do you have the 2 sprockets for Std. 8mm?

[Maurice Leakey]

The 824 has permanent sprockets for standard 8. They are not removable. The Super 8 sprockets are just a ring of teeth which fit over the standard 8 sprockets.


Maurice

[Janice Glesser]

Maurice Leakey You are so right, I had totally forgotten about the permanent standard 8 sprockets. I primarily use my 824 for standard 8 and haven't to change the gate or the sprockets for a very long time.

[Maurice Leakey]

Here is a review (plus comments) of the Eumig 824 from "Film Making" magazine. This was in the "old" Forum.
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bi...=012088#000000


Maurice

[Erik Snel]

Here's a picture of my 824, the regular 8 gate is stored in the lamp cover. it does constantly fall out when its turned over.




the only thing i see missing in your pictures is the super 8 pressure plate. but i pressume you disassemnled them for the picture? because your description of the film not being steady and rolling tells me the claw can't engage the film. so there seems pressure missing from the pressure plate. also adjusting the framing should never influence the tension of the film inside the gate. the gate consists of two parts, the rear part is the gate. thats either super 8 or regular 8 and the front one is a pressure plate you use with both gates. the sprockets are indeed stacked with the regular 8 ones behind the super 8 sprockets. in other 800's this system is slightly different with two sets of gates, pressure plates and sprockets taht all are exchanged. and dont forget to turn then knob on the back with the dot upwards or you will break the claw pin.

[John Fehling]

Thanks Janice, Muarice and Erik for your responses and photos. Yes I do have the Super8 upper and lower sprocket wheels that fit over the permanent regular 8 sprocket wheels. And Yes I had removed both the front and back film gate plates for my photos. Erik it's good to see that my automatic threading mechanism is intact, although maybe slightly worn where it directs the super8 film around the yellow/white semicircular guide. I have looked at the pressure plates and I think they look OK. With the plates removed I have held them together and manually fed film through. The film seems to be held steady with a little pressure from the two spring tabs opposite the plate with the grub screws. The film sprocket holes are not quite centered in the sprocket slit, more off to the outside (grub screw side). I tried to adjust the grub screw plate to get the holes more centered but it was already over that direction. I've enclosed photos of the plates. Anything look amiss? I did circle an area on the back plate that is a bit burnished. And yes I know they are not perfectly clean.

A question on the framing knob. Mine just seems to loosen and tighten the knob with more threads exposed where it enters the projector when loosened. It does not seem to move the projected frame up or down to hide or show the frame line. Is it working correctly? It does seem to tighten or loosen the lower film loop around the yellow/white film guide.

[Erik Snel]

it's been a while, does the projector work again? i was just thinking. is the claw pin still there? they break very easy when the gates are removed in the wrong way. (knob on the backside with the dot upwards, only then you can safely remove the gate)

[Janice Glesser]

The inching knob should move freely... manually cycling the claw. Position the two white dots in line when removing or inserting the gates.

[Maurice Leakey]

Just to amplify Janice's comment.
With the inching knob in the position as shown the claw is withdrawn. Only then should the gate/s be changed.
Remember that this model only has one very small claw. It can easily be broken off unless these instructions are followed.

Maurice

[Erik Snel]

I currently have an Eumig mark 824 on the workbench with a broken claw pin. i am doing some research if it is possible to replace the pin. the pin is only 0,5mm thick and sticks out 1,7mm from its holder. so very tiny. eumig did have a special tool to replace these pins without having to completely disassemlbe the projector. i think these tools are unicorns right now.

[Lee Mannering]

In the 1970s I broke a claw pin off forgetting to set the rear inching know, a easy thing to forget even as a rather over enthusiastic teenager.
The Eumig spare part ordered was a complete claw arm and pin attached which I fitted myself.

It's worth remembering that Eumig improved the 800 range even tho they have the same model numbers. 810D etc and they do function a little differently.

On the late 800Ds you only have three sections for the film gate guides with right front section being used for Std and Super 8. If the machine is losing loops and the claw is intact its probably going to be the black plastic sprocket mount which has cracked. You'll need to inspect looking for a horizontal split around the locking nut of the top drive sprocket.

This cracking is becoming very common on the 824D 822D and late versions of earlier models. As result on all my late machines I loosened the allen bolt, put a drop of glue on the metal shaft then slide the drive wheel back into place finally finger nip the allen bolt up but not over tight.