Correction: HID conversion kit for Elmo GS-1200/ST-1200 available from The Reel Image

[Graham Ritchie]

A few years ago there was a sale of HID lighting kits going cheap. After looking at the box I thought this might work. I cut a hole in the mirror just enough for the lamp to slide back and forth

After setting up the lamp as a trial, I switch it on, the lamp did not ignite properly mmmmm after some thought the penny dropped I was using a AC transformer, this being for a car was DC. I found a transformer that could supply 12VDC 8 amps. That worked so away I went fitting and adjusting it to the GS1200, however although stated it was suppose to be a pure white light, I was getting that light blue look, so I gave up on using a car HID kit, so it was back to my Osram ELC.

It was worth a try as the kit was really cheap, one day I might return to all this but for the moment the ELC lamp will do.

[Dominique De Bast]

Thanks for your explanation, Simon. I never use that part of the projector (on one of my Buckingham, it has even been removed and on the other one due to the blade shutter position, different than on 16mm, it's not possible to pull down). I would have thought the HDI lamp is a little bit longer than the original one and that it would not be possible to pull the clutch because of the filter coming just in front of the lamp but obviousely on your projector it's not a problem, good news :-). A permanent cooling (the fan automatically on when you plug the projector in) would be a less risky solution (as I'm not sure on the long term pulling the clutch down too often is good for the mechanism but since you have used this for years without trouble, I may worry for nothing) to use the projector more traditionaly but not sure if it's easy to set. You did well, anyway to make sure the lamp cannot be on with the fan off as it would be easy to be in trouble with a too hot lamp. Even with the original lamp and the fan on, the gate is very hot (and so is the film), so without fan...

[Simon McConway]

Dominique...to change reels, I simply pull down the clutch. Yes, a small amount of light reaches the screen whilst the clutch is down, but this is fine. I can then rewind, or thread another film without switching off the lamp, though the clutch must be up so full light reaches the screen. That doesn't bother me at home, but for a public show, I would simply put a lens cap over to stop all light. This exact projector was used at the Blackpool event (on the Friday night) a few years ago. But, at that time, the lamp was controlled by a separate switch, not the projector's main switch. This was not ideal as it was possible to have the lamp on with the projector and fan off. This is now impossible, thanks to the fact that the lamp is controlled by the main switch.

[Lee Mannering]

On my Eumig HID self named by me HID 860 SuperLux in memory of the prototype 850 Xenon the beloved company came up with tho not produced you can switch the lamp on and off mid show if you choose but the manufacturer warns it will shorten its life somewhat. If you do switch is off and want to restart leave it 5 minutes and you will be able to restart it.
All the HID Eumigs I've sold have been PAT tested for safe use in public buildings as well. (UK Portable Appliance Testing)

When I give my forthcoming farmers field Camping show with my Eumig of cartoons I'll be splicing some old unexposed Kodachrome 40 between each cartoon as I like to say something about each one to the children and will guard against damage to prints if I miss the shutter stop. Its all about being a projectionist reely, sorry really and protecting our movies. A bit off topic but under 10's seem to enjoy Popeye the most which some of the parents even remember.

Yes Graham we have been blessed to have Mr Bill Parsons over here a gentleman who has been a great help to many like myself. Bill is pretty much semi retired now I believe and one of the good guys in our hobby.

Watched Jurassic Park on the Eumig yesterday and some of the new Scope REEL IMAGE releases on the Elmo HID side by side.
Really wonderful after all these years to be able to project Scope to this level at home isn't it.

[Dominique De Bast]

On the Elf, the douser is already there too. You simply pull down the clutch and the dowser prevents damage to the film. I actually wired a simple relay to the mains switch on the Elf, so that the lamp is switched on exactly as it would be if the old halogen lamp was fitted. To rewind, you simply pull down the clutch, lift the rewind lever, and off you go with the lamp remaining on. The only flaw...in reverse, you'd need to go to "off" first, thus the lamp would need to go off too. But, as an old cinema projectionist once warned me, no projector should be used to reverse film!

Simon, since the lamp has to stay on all the time, how do you do when you have to put another spool ? On my Eumig, the HDI lamp has its own on/off switch, so I can easily stop the forward mechanism, while the lamp and the fan are still on, to put another film (I have several empty take up spools ready, I use one for each film, to limit overheating risks and I rewind everything after the show on a separate rewinder). I wonder how you do on your system, if I understood well how it works, when you want to project a second film (or the second part of a film) with a short break.

[Graham Ritchie]

Lee

You are indeed fortunate to have someone in the UK that can fix and modify projectors like the GS1200, you comment about the weight of the GS1200 made me as I was moving mine just the other day, and the first thought that came to mind....they are "HEAVY"....very "HEAVY"

[Maurice Leakey]

Following on from Lee's comments I would say that the blue tinge is only really apparent if there is no film and you have a clear screen.
With black & white films there is a "punch" in the image, Technicolor looks just like the cinemas of yesteryear, and as Lee says, it does help a lot with colour fade or even pink films.

[Lee Mannering]

Hi Graham. That is the reel beauty of the HID lamp the blue hint that is. It has a hint but hardly visible so I would'nt rely so much on charts. With films pinking it reely helps and have to say my old Derann B&W films from the 70's look gorgeous with the lamp. The irony is is I regularly came into contact with these lamps having to adjust my cameras filming pro stage shows/DJ around the country using HID for stage lighting but it never crossed my mind to try one in a projector. Preoccupied I guess.

I'm going to take my own HID Eumig to a UK film fair so they can see it in action. I'll leave the HID Elmo at home as its getting heavy with the extra ad on's.

Over here much respected Bill Parsons is the HID man and great with Elmo machines 2 blade shutters and the like, we have been blessed in the UK with some talented repair specialists.

[Thomas Knappstein]

Graham did you test your Conversion with the Osram 64655 EHJ 24V250W Two base Pin Lamp in your cutted Mirror?
How was the Result on the Screen?

[Graham Ritchie]

Thanks Maurice for those links.

What caught my eye in one of them was the "Colour Temp Chart"

I had a close look at the lamp specs which states 6500 and when I looked at there chart, it looked to me that the lamp was giving out a blue tinge, not a pure white. I again looked at the you-tube video and just about every screen image showed it to be the same as that colour chart.

I am not knocking the HID conversion, each to there own. I have even tried 12volt HID car conversion a while back, but returned to my usual Osram Xenophot ELC because I did not like the look of the HID light on the screen, so I "have" tried different things over the years

Anyway I do feel its a interesting subject and advice on safety like Paul mentioned above is important so hopefully folk here will continue to discuss this on this subject of HID.

PS. Here is that colour chart I was talking about and look at where the 6500 lines up.

My apology to Stuart as it was his link to the video not Simon

[Lee Mannering]

My Elmo HID GS1200 is fitted with a 2 blade shutter by our dear friend Mr Parsons and I converted it to HID in one afternoon. The Elmo's best friend my HID 860 Superlux Eumig it sits next to also has a 2 blade shutter I fitted (big job) and we all use the shutter blade as a dowser, but being a 2 blade on mine you have to know what you are doing if stopping mid show with only a second to scorch a frame. Works fine tho in the right hands and those who have purchased my machines seem to be getting on OK.
We did our Scope SW's screening on a big wall screen with the 860 in the end and it performed very well indeed, amazing for the old girl reely.

[Paul Adsett]

I am very tempted to get one of these kits, my only concern being the safety issue. We are dealing here with a 5KV ignition pulse so the wiring had better be right, there will be no second chances. So any advice on the safety aspects of this conversion would be greatly appreciated.

[Maurice Leakey]

Here are the two main items required for an HID 150 conversion:-

1) Xenpow HID-150 Discharge Lamp (stagesuperstore.co.uk)

2) Ventronic Electronic Square Cable Clamp 150 Watt (bltdirect.com)

My 16mm Bell & Howell 644 has these installed.

[Graham Ritchie]

Fantastic everyone

The screen size Brian looks about right, If the image is not in any way washed out on that size, then I think a HID conversion for home use would be fine. "being to bright was my main concern" One thing I notice is when dividing wattage by volts, the amps drawn would be very low compared to a Xenon lamp, even the common 24v 200/250watt would appear to draw more amps, glad to hear that it works fine when fitted to most projectors.

Just curious what is the lamp used for?

Simon thanks for that link, it does appear though, to show the lamp giving a image to be more of a "cold blue look" is that the camera taking the video?

[Paul Browning]

I have tested a motor car hid lamp with an external power supply with the gs1200 , and this arrangement was almost as bright as the standard beaulieu 708, as measured at the screen. In its standard setup the beaulieu is much brighter, but hid lamp temperature gives it the edge over the 708. Lamps are relatively cheap, just need to modify the lamp reflector, in my case i used a spent fuji lamp, correct one for the elmo gs. There are other options too, look for martin lighting as the do a range of night club lights that use hid lamps, and can be picked up cheap as chips on ebay, lamp also now from china cheap too. These lights come we all you need inside to retro fit into any projector..........