Long Play Forever ?

[Chip Gelmini]

Hello Steve

Here's some pictures of what I built for my long play system. These were the first one I built back around 2002. Today it is much more advanced. Including changeover, film cleaning, and Cinemascope.

Whereas mine is not portable - yet it works top to bottom threading that like a 35mm projector from the good old days.

I love it so much if I can't run without Tower projection, then I don't run at all.

If the pictures show up as small icons - please CLICK the image to expand it.

[Steve Lee]

Hi Maurice. I have worked in both the U.K and France and the system is the same 35mm on cores in cans, and 70mm on spools in transit cases.

[Maurice Leakey]

Yes, indeed, Steve
When running 2000ft change-overs prints on their last run we used to put a core on the projector's take-up. This saved time in rewinding them onto a core for transit.
I appreciate that in the USA 35mm prints actually travelled on spools, but I do not know how such prints were transported in France.

[Steve Lee]

Maurice, I couldn't agree with you more. There's nothing more fun than showing a film on changeovers, gazing out of a port, trying not to blink in case you miss the first cue dot, and that feeling of total satisfaction after the jump has been done.
I used to run 35mm the majority of the time from a platter (cake stand) and 70mm always on a changeover, it was such a great system, especially if you were showing a one off screening. As you could get the reels back in the cans as you were working your way though the film, without having to make it up and plate it off at the end of the show.
Good old days!

[Maurice Leakey]

Having worked for years making up programmes for long play use, towers and platters, I always regretted the day when then took away our twin 35mm projectors. They were such an easy way to project films.
I feel the same at home. I have plenty of sub-standard projectors and can always use two (for change-overs) if I feel like it.

[Burton Sundquist]

That would be Fantastic Steve! I will be eagerly watching for your post!

[Osi Osgood]

I admire all of these people that had the opportunity to work with 35mm! I have some trailers in 35mm, and I used to watch my dad work the 35mm at the airbase movie theaters, but never worked with it myself.

[Steve Lee]

My whole idea to start with was to make something so simple, that within two minutes you could have it mounted on nearly every machine and have it up and running without having to think about anything else, other than watching the film you are showing.
Also to make it as portable as possible. I can pick up the entire unit on the projector and take it out into the garden to do a show without anything else. It's like turning any machine into a Fumeo for very little money.
When I am happy with the final version, I will draw up the plans and list out the parts needed and where to get them, and also bulk 3d print the spindles with a threaded shaft so anyone can have a go at making one, that was the idea.

[Chip Gelmini]

Just remember a 16 mm projector running at 18 frames per second will be nearly perfect take up machinery to handle that of super eight at 24 frames per second the difference of 5 to 7 ft./min. will be easily absorbed by the take up clutch and belt system

The most important fact is where to place the 16 mm take up machine and to make sure you have proper rollers to guide to film to it when it leaves the super eight machine

You can use those 16 mm brass adapters that step up to Super 8 Reels on the take up shaft of the 16 mm machine and it will work superb as long as you have a way to lock the reel onto that shaft

Given all the above I have done this prior and it works great

[Michael O’Regan]

As Maurice indicates, I recall working with a Westrex tower on which the tension needed to be monitored and altered throughout. It’s interesting that this is working for 8mm.

[Maurice Leakey]

When I used a tower on 35mm some years ago the spools were speed regulated by four variacs, one for each spool. The speeds had to be altered at regular intervals to maintain all the correct tensions.

Some years later it was Christie platters which ran the whole programme in one go without any attention from the projectionist, and they even shut down at the end of the film.

[Chip Gelmini]

Now wait a minute why would I post earlier that I wish I could do a long place system myself and end it with several devil icons when in reality of course I've already done that before......

https://youtu.be/SozepDnuSSw

[Steve Lee]

Hi Burton.
Years ago having worked with many different 35mm tower systems, and like you I have had this rattling around in my head for some time. My thoughts were I if this works for 35mm it must work for 8mm.
Knowing with 35mm there is a great amount of tension needed on the take up to be able to start the machine. It only takes a split second for the film to leave a roller by 1mm for it to be all over, as it will snap back and rip the film. I have also witnessed somebody miss thread a roller to end up with two 16mm prints at the end of the show! due to the amount of tension needed.
But I think it comes down to the ratio of the amount of film in length = time in seconds for it to pass through the machine to find the amount of tension needed, maybe somebody can help us out with this? for example the length of 24 frames on 35mm must be at least 15 times longer than 24 frames on super 8.
It is one of the reasons why 70mm could never be run from a tower, due to even more tension needed.
As I found out it takes such little tension to start the film running and to let it run with no adjustment needed through the entire 1200 ft reel. The take up must be driven from the motor by some type of belt as John Burgess has rightly said, as it needs to have some type of a slipping clutch system in case too much power is applied from the motor.
With the cost of all of the parts to do this now (for me, under 25 euros), even if it all go belly up, just stick it on an old machine working or not, bung a couple of large reels on it and you have got one hell of a display piece!
My advice is just go for it, there's nothing to lose as I found by trying.

[John Burgess]

Excellent job Steve! I have three St 8 machines I have converted to long play. I used arms from 16 mm machines so that I could use large spools which I convert to 8mm and they fit straight onto the spool arm nose . There are loads of spools out there and so cheap . I use small mains motors from eBay for take up, spring belts are good as they act as a slipping clutch as the reel becomes heavier. Often wondered why the likes of Eumig, Elmo never offered machines with this facility.
John

[Brian Fretwell]

Hi Steve, with my typing I often make that misspelling of my name.

Sometimes it is not just the force needed but a sort of resonance with the spring at the top of the gate that causes the film to sort of "Bounce" the reel taking too much off then the reel stopping and the inertia of the stopped spool restarting making it worse. It is a delicate system and not well liked by some.