Super 8 film - The whirlwind effect

[John Halfacre]

Hi All

A few films that I have obtained have an occassional fault which I have described as a 'whirlwind' effect where for a few seconds a whirlwind in part of the frameappears. Is there a technical term for this as some folk havent understood when I have used that term and what causes it - fungus, dirt or a stock fault

Thanks

John

[Adrian Winchester]

I'm genuinely baffled by the issue you've described, and I struggle to think of something that most collectors would come across now and again. I therefore wonder if the films are a random selection or if they could have anything in common which could (e.g.) be linked to something that went wrong at a lab during a certain period. I have had a few Disney one reel releases, printed by Buck Labs, that had a kind of sticky emulsion problem that's conspicuous on screen.

[John Halfacre]

Thanks Adrian. all I can add is that
a) it has appeared on films from different distributors so a random slecetion, bought from different places (so not liekly to be a storage problem for a single collection)
b) I have only seen it on colour prints, not black and white
c) It generally appears in the same place vertically across the affected frames - i.e it does not move laterally across the picture, abit like a scratch mark but in the form of a helix/whirlwind appearance
d) It normally only lasts for a few seconds across a short run of frames, but has sometimes appeared more than once on a single film

It is very difficult to get a clear screenshot of the effect to post on here as it is relatively faint compared to the projected frame but noticeable when watching
My initial thought that was it was from a dirt mark, but as you say maybe an emulsion fault.

Any other input from forum folks very welcome

[Maurice Leakey]

John
I have hundreds of Super 8 films and sixty projectors, but have never experienced what you are describing. What projector are you using, and have you tried the same films on another projector?

Maurice

[John Halfacre]

Thanks Maurice
I have tried to do a capture of a frame (see below) which shows the whirlwind. They appear for a few frames and then disappear completely. Have tried on 2 different projectors (elmo ST-1200 and Sankyo 501) and still appears in same sections of the film on each. The screenshot is from a Derann copy of Rollerball which was still in its new plastic wrapper unopened in its case, so had never been played before. It has also appeared on a couple of disney colour super 8's (not Derann).
Only a few films affected out of hundreds ive run through these projectors in the last few months.
I posted the details on the Derann facebook forum and Ged also hasnt come across before. He suggested maybe water damage. Have also had a suggestion that it might be an emulsion fault on individual prints

[John Halfacre]

Also had the following response from the Facebook forum : It's a printing problem, you get it quite often on these sealed prints, I believe they were seconds and could not be sold as perfect that's why there still sealed after all these years, I've had a few with the same problem and sadly there's nothing you can do about it.

[Maurice Leakey]

John

That's interesting. Many prints with slight defects were sold off by distributors at a low price, but I am sure that potential purchasers were made aware of a defect/s.

In the early days of the Walt Disney Suoer 8 releases they only issued their traditional cartoons, Mickey, Donald, Pluto, etc., as silent prints. The sound releases were mainly excerpts from their features. Derann had the silent prints striped and then sold them as sound prints (still in a box marked silent !!). I don't know, but I always assumed that Derann had hired 16mm prints to copy their sound tracks.

I bought two. "Pluto's Christmas Tree" and "Clock Cleaners". The latter was sold at a reduced price as it was slightly out of sync. However, collectors were made aware of the problem in advance of purchasing.

I believe that Walton also sold seconds.


Maurice

[Joe Taffis]

I replied to that Facebook post too. So what is your real name, John Halfacre or Nigel Jamie Bangs?

[John Halfacre]

Im John, my friend is Nigel . I subscribed to the forum. Nigel is on the Derann vaults page on FB