Pro's and con's of HID conversion

[Paul Adsett]

There has been much posted here about HID conversions of 8mm projectors by Lee, Alan, and others, but I would really like to hear about the experience of operating a HID converted machine. Is the increase in brightness really impactful, even a game changer for super 8 projection, are colors desaturated or changed in any way, how awkward is the actual process of running multiple reel changes in a show when you have to have the light on all the time, is increased light spill from the projector an issue, is it a more complex process than running a regular (un-modified) machine? Are there any down sides to HID conversion of S8 projectors, or any reservations about it?
I would really like to hear from people in the know on this subject.

[David Baker]

Paul , I'm currently having my Elmo 1200 HD converted so I'll let you know....for sure !

[Graham Ritchie]

Paul

The HID subject does come up in the following video link.

[David Baker]

How insightful !

[Mark Mander]

I have an ST1200 that's been converted, I'm very pleased with how it looks on screen, the films look much nicer and sharper, it is basically the same comparison as halogen to xenon machines ,this conversion is not really recommended for running a 200ft film,you could but it will shorten the life of the bulb, its more feature based ,reel changes are fine if you have a good threading machine but bigger reels are easier and less risk, Mark

[David Baker]

Very interesting........

[Lee Mannering]

Hi Paul. My own conversions of the humble Eumig is born of love for the little wonder up against the big boy machines such as the highly regarded Elmo GS1200 machines. Running a HID machine will require the operator/projectionist to raise his or her game as you will need to pay more attention as any projectionist would to the film when projected. By design these HID lamps should be left on until cool down at the end of your show but they do cool quicker than a regular lamp so will re light under 5 minutes.

Other than my Eumig conversions which have been sold outside the UK I request buyers call for a training session when collecting which has worked well.
Yes you are better to spool up for a show but I often run 200ft reels of say STD 8 next to the Elmo HID and you will get used to the idea that HID needs more attention or risk burnt frames.
Unlike the Elmo GS the little Eumig 800's do not have a dowser so if you do need to stop mid way switch the lamp off or turn the shutter inching knob to close the lamp light. You soon get the hang of it.

Other precautions are having long white leaders on films and something to block the bright light in front of the lens. Even with the Elmo GS dowser in place you will still see light on the screen at home.

Other than that its all good news. As with my recent visit to the cinema and a 26ft screen my own Eumig HID performed well and has one big benefit over the GS a big choice of quality lenses to fit any setting. I do love my HID GS1200 by the way.

[Mark Mander]

I've also had an Elf 16mm done and the results are much improved over the super 8 machine I have,mainly due to the larger gate, I personally think the conversion is better suited to 16mm machines ,Mark

[Maurice Leakey]

As 16mm projectors are obviously larger than Super 8 projectors they are much easier for conversion to HID 150.

My Bell & Howell 644, which was converted professionally, is a delight to use, no different to use from when it had its original 1000 watt lamp.

The bright white light from an HID 150 is certainly an improvement over a conventional lamp.

[Tom Photiou]

My own thoughts on this are these, my room, (and i suspect many other users rooms) is a humble average spare room measuring around 14ft x 12ft. For 16mm i use the 25mm lens, and in this size room the bright image from the 250w lamp is more than ample even on scope films, you should be able to see this in my screenshots on other threads, or reviews on the other channel. Obviously these machines weren't designed for home movie use but for larger venues, therefore to me, it would be pointless doing a conversion on a 16mm for home use unless you have a decent large size room.

For super 8s, again, while i know there would be an improvement, it would be more suited to people who have a much larger room than that of the average UK home, or for those who do film show events for various party's or other venues in which case it would be an good advantage. With my projector just 14ft from the screen i feel the image using the 150w lamps and the 1:1 and 1:0 lens is more than enough. I have seen people put up images showing the standard light against the HID, the standard light was yellow, the HID light was bright white. I do err on this, if i demonstrated the lighting on my Eumig 810 using the standard 100w bulb and the 1:3 lens and then put up the HID then your going to see an improvement. I'll show you the same same improvement putting up the 100w bulb 1:3 lens of a Eumig against my Elmo HD with a 150w bulb and 1:0 lens.
I'm not dissing the HID, (i have considered it myself), im just saying for the average user in and average size room, i think if your using a good lens with the 150w or 200w bulbs, it seems to be a bit of over kill.

[John Burgess]

I have converted two Kodak 8 (st 8) projectors so I can only speak for that gauge. I must say I was astounded at the difference achieved by HID, a lot of st 8 prints can be a little on the dark side and this lamp certainly brings them to life. It's not the power in turns of wattage, it's the colour temperature that delivers the much improved images on the screen.If possible you ideally need a dowser to shut off the light when stopping the motor, although as Lee pointed out you could use the shutter to do the job. I would certainly opt to convert Paul , even with a small throw you will appreciate how much much improvement HiID can make to your films.
John

[Maurice Leakey]

....It's not the power in turns of wattage, it's the colour temperature that delivers the much improved images on the screen......

I heartily agree with John, as I said above, it's the bright white light from an HID 150 that is so impressive, even faded colour films are improved as it emits a colour temperature of 6500K which has a good degree of blue content.

Color temperature black body 800-12200K - Color temperature - Wikipedia

[Mark Mander]

So plus points are,
Faded prints can look better

Sharper image

Black and white prints look better

Dark prints are improved

Minus side
careful use if your machine doesn't have a dowser

Bulbs more expensive

Not really recommended use for start stopping the machine multiple times(lamp on and off)

Mark

[Maurice Leakey]

[QUOTE=Mark Mander;n40573]....Bulbs more expensive..../QUOTE]

True, at £72 each.
However, they are supposed to have a life of 750 hours compared with the stated life of 50 hours for an ELC.

[Paul Browning]

Maybe the car HID version would be a better alternative, it was nearly as bright as the beaulieu 708 el which is brighter than the gs 1200, cheaper to buy, readily available and would probably not need any extra cooling, the mod would need a reflector for the lamp to sit in and fixed in position, not that difficult to do ............