Grabbing picture from LED TV with 8mm, will it be flicking?

[Winbert Hutahaean]

I have several films that missing the opening credit title. So I am thinking to use super 8mm camera to grab the credit title by shooting directly to LED TV or LCD Projector. I knew a long time ago people did with the tube TV and the result was horrible flickers seen on the screen. So if we do it know with LED TV or LCD projector do you think the same flickers will appear?

I would greatley happy if someone has done an experiment with this method and has a sample of it.

cheers,

[Ed Gordon]

I have never tried capturing HDTV video on film. Years ago I filmed 8mm from the old tube TV screen, and the results were pretty bad (rolling black bars, and flicker).

However, I expect you would get better results with HD material from an LED screen or projector. At a minimum you could grab a still of the movie title card and film that.

[Joseph Banfield]

I would be concerned with the frame lines not matching up exactly with the commercial film and your home shot credits, thereby rusulting in readjusting the framing after the credits. I remember this often being an issue with Collector's Club two-parters after being spliced together since the frame lines would often not match until you readjusted for the difference.

[Brian Fretwell]

I've never had trouble taking still photos off an LCD screen, though the slow shutter speed selected should tie in with a cine camera I wouldn't go as far as guaranteeing that it will work.

[Steve Klare]

I'd be concerned with getting enough exposure. The reversal films available aren't very fast and the fast films are negative stocks.

-from here it gets really complicated!

It's a shame there isn't an 8mm Marco out there somewhere...

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

What's the running time of that shot in requirement?

If it's not that much (and with some time & patience added) it would be, in theory, possible to capture frame-by-frame from the source. You probably need a camera with stop motion single-frame shutter release too.

So it's essentially identical in principle to the one in this video, minus the automation.

https://youtu.be/-hzeO-zGfkk

[Dominique De Bast]

I would be concerned with the frame lines not matching up exactly with the commercial film and your home shot credits, thereby rusulting in readjusting the framing after the credits. I remember this often being an issue with Collector's Club two-parters after being spliced together since the frame lines would often not match until you readjusted for the difference.

I have this problem with several films spliced together, not only Collector's Club copies. Maybe they didn't think people would like to watch films without a break...

[Winbert Hutahaean]

So I made an experiment with LCD projector. Using my mobile phone camera, I didn't see any flickers or lines while the same camera if we point to the old tube TV will show those flickers and lines. You can try this at home. Does it mean it will also apply on super 8mm camera?

I know nothing about technology, so does the LCD projector also run with fps (hertz frequency) which I knew was the culprit of those flickers and lines.

[Osi Osgood]

I remember grabbing some footage from "Return of the Jedi" off of an old school 25 inch color TV, with an old Bolex standard 8mm ... It didn't go well.

[Ed Gordon]

So I made an experiment with LCD projector. Using my mobile phone camera, I didn't see any flickers or lines while the same camera if we point to the old tube TV will show those flickers and lines. You can try this at home. Does it mean it will also apply on super 8mm camera?

I know nothing about technology, so does the LCD projector also run with fps (hertz frequency) which I knew was the culprit of those flickers and lines.

Yes, all videos have a frame rate. It is usually 30 to 60 FPS, but I always use 24 FPS to get that "film look" vs the "TV look".

As for the technical side, I have questions.

Movie projectors show a "slide show" at so many frames per second. When the "slides" are being changed all light to the screen are blocked. Is that true for Video projectors? When the "slides" are changing, does the Video projector block all light to the screen, or does it simply replace the previous "slide"?

It seems to me that if video projectors never block light to the screen, then you should be able to get a good image with a movie camera pointed at a video image/movie.

[Brian Fretwell]

I think single chip DLP projectors have no time between pictures as they use the colour wheel filter system to introduce colour. If you get more than one exposure of a single colour it could change the colour balance severely between frames. LCD projectors wouldn't have this problem, but maybe intoroduce others.

[Dominique De Bast]

Probably, the only way to be sure if it works or not is to make a test with your own material and see the results.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Most if not all of today's digital display system (LCD, LED, DLP, etc., you name it) does not exhibit any blanking out period, or it would be too short to be noticeable. Unlike 35mm film projector, for example, which generally uses 2 blade shutter 90 degrees each. That means 48 light interruptions, 50% duty cycle every second.

Unless the frame rate is identical or the shutter speed is correct, directly "filming" the projected picture from film projector will flicker for sure. Doing other way round (filming from digital display) should get better result.

The best bet is to film from the LCD display that is capable of true "24p" mode, and have the camera speed set at 24fps as well. The result should be quite acceptable - probably better than using CRT display in 60i mode of course.

[Winbert Hutahaean]

Most if not all of today's digital display system (LCD, LED, DLP, etc., you name it) does not exhibit any blanking out period, or it would be too short to be noticeable. Unlike 35mm film projector, for example, which generally uses 2 blade shutter 90 degrees each. That means 48 light interruptions, 50% duty cycle every second.

Unless the frame rate is identical or the shutter speed is correct, directly "filming" the projected picture from film projector will flicker for sure. Doing other way round (filming from digital display) should get better result.

The best bet is to film from the LCD display that is capable of true "24p" mode, and have the camera speed set at 24fps as well. The result should be quite acceptable - probably better than using CRT display in 60i mode of course.

Thanks Nant... your last input have give me the assurance that it will work well. I am now also thinking to make credit title of my own shoot with this LCD projector (done in the computer and projected to the screen)