Re-recording sound on features

[Stuart Hilliker]

Hi Paul. A different language would definitely complicate my workflow but not impossible. Your suggestion of running two pictures would probably be the most elegant solution.
Alternatively you could trust your eyes and ears to spot any sync discrepancies with your rough video transfer.

[Paul Browning]

Hi Stuart, Ok, i'm thinking could this be done so easily if you are dubbing back to english from a german language print, i think the bangs etc would be there but the vocal stuff might be a problem, would this still work well, or would you need the frame to frame match up ? .......

[Stuart Hilliker]

Hi Paul,
I am using the guide audio from the video capture and matching the new audio track to it. I also check sync points throughout the reel (gun shots/door bangs etc) to ensure that original transfer was in sync. There’s often a few surprises!

[Paul Browning]

Philip i got that bit, its uses a square wave to lock the projector, what i'm asking Stuart is, what is he using to reference the film he recorded to when he uploads to his laptop software, is he loading in the dvd of the film, and comparing the two for lost frames, and then correcting the video shot to match the dvd so that the sound also is the same, frame for frame .........

[Stuart Hilliker]

That’s absolutely correct. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Philip Hamilton]

There are various audio interfaces available and, often dependent on budget, varying number of outputs. Commonly using a standard USB from the computer stereo, 4, 8, 16 or 24 physical outputs are standard.

This is one option. Not the cheapest but definitely a reputable company….

Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07QSC92...P5Z36G5KXRH3QF

I gather the audio interface - once installed onto your Windows PC acts like a multi output sound card? Select in Preferences within the editing software and I am guessing that I could then assign audio tracks up to 4 outputs on the device you selected? Then the outputs can be connected directly to the projector ESS and Line in R&L? Is that correct? thanks

[Stuart Hilliker]

There are various audio interfaces available and, often dependent on budget, varying number of outputs. Commonly using a standard USB from the computer stereo, 4, 8, 16 or 24 physical outputs are standard.

This is one option. Not the cheapest but definitely a reputable company….

Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07QSC92...P5Z36G5KXRH3QF

[Philip Hamilton]

Hi Philip,
Yes, you are correct. If only mono is required then two outputs would suffice. If your budget will stretch to it a four output audio interface would be the most elegant and flexible solution.
Using this system you can guarantee sync +/- one frame.
By shooting a rough video of the print you can solve any missing frame problems without having to subject the print to excessive rewinds and replays.
Once you have an audio track that matches your print you can hit record safe in the knowledge that it will be a single record pass.

I use the rough audio to compare and phase to the full range track. There’s nothing automatic about it but it is at least reliable.
Working out the correct frame rate and pitch of the DVD/Bluray source can be a challenge.
It very quickly becomes apparent if different versions of the film have been released!

Thanks so much. By getting a four port audio output interface - would that hook directly between the sound output on the PC and the ESS and AuxR&L inputs on the projector? Would this somehow allow me to need only one sound card with a stereo out and if so how do I pass the 'pulse sync' as well. Sorry I may not be understanding how the audio interface works/helps.

[Stuart Hilliker]

Hi Philip,
Yes, you are correct. If only mono is required then two outputs would suffice. If your budget will stretch to it a four output audio interface would be the most elegant and flexible solution.
Using this system you can guarantee sync +/- one frame.
By shooting a rough video of the print you can solve any missing frame problems without having to subject the print to excessive rewinds and replays.
Once you have an audio track that matches your print you can hit record safe in the knowledge that it will be a single record pass.

I use the rough audio to compare and phase to the full range track. There’s nothing automatic about it but it is at least reliable.
Working out the correct frame rate and pitch of the DVD/Bluray source can be a challenge.
It very quickly becomes apparent if different versions of the film have been released!

[Chip Gelmini]

And now this is way too complicated for me I know there are people I can pay to do this for me so that will probably be my direction I follow having said this the answers here have been most interesting I am older now 25 years ago I probably could've mastered it right away but now it's too complex for me

[Philip Hamilton]

Good clear write up Stuart and informative, with your software and as you film the super 8 to video, does the software alert you to frames of one or the other in a miss match?, or are you looking at this frame by frame, side by side to check the match is correct, if that is the case this must take some time in real time to do, i guess you get better at it has time goes on.............

Paul - As I understand it, Oliver is actually using the variable control speed on the projector to TWEAK it into synchronization - see post pic above.

Stuart on the other hand is using the 'pulse sync' method which automatically sends a signal to the projector to project at a specific speed - e.g. 24fps AND sync'd with the playback of the PC. In his case the PC controls the entire sync. In Oliver's case it's just being eyeballed to sync up.

[Paul Browning]

Good clear write up Stuart and informative, with your software and as you film the super 8 to video, does the software alert you to frames of one or the other in a miss match?, or are you looking at this frame by frame, side by side to check the match is correct, if that is the case this must take some time in real time to do, i guess you get better at it has time goes on.............

[Philip Hamilton]

The reason for three outputs is to feed the left & right audio to the GS whilst allowing the pulse signal to have its own output. In order to connect this to the GS, I made a cable that has an ESS plug (5 pin din) to a 1/4inch jack. I believe the pin arrangement for this is explained on the old forum archive.

As my Pro Tools is part of a studio, the set up is far more complicated than it needs to be for the GS re-records.

I would think that one of the Focusrite audio interfaces would work brilliantly for this.
Output 1 to GS input Left
Output 2 to GS input Right
Output 3 to ESS (possibly via a small mixer or similar to increase gain). Do not connect this output to a speaker!

Hi Stuart - So as I have read almost everything I can find about this - it seem that I would need to do the following :
1) Create the EDIT in Sony Vegas (or similar editor) on my PC
2) The resulting edit will have a Video and Audio track.
3) Add an additional audio track
4) Import a 24hz (24fps) pulse track to the ESS input
5) Here's where it gets tricky - I would need another sound card (2) so that I can have a separate output for the pulse??
6) Connect sound card 1 with film audio directly to the projector Line in L % R or single jack with L having MONO
7) Connect sound card 2 with 1/8 auto jack to ESS input on projector
8) When you press play on the PC the pulse starts the projector as the edited move plays and send the audio to record.

Also - as i understand it - you eliminate the the extra sound card if you only want to record MONO by putting the pulse on the left channel and the audio on the right channel. Plug in a splitter to the sound card that gives you a L & R outputs. Plug the R line into the projector to feed the MONO soundtrack. Plug the L into the ESS plug - proper pins - to provide the pulse.

Does this sound correct? Is a mixer required? Where does one get a plug that is setup correctly for the ESS 6 DIN input? Seems like most of you guys are making the plug. Are there directions on hoot do so anywhere?

Thanks again for all of your feedback.

[Philip Hamilton]

[Philip Hamilton]

Philip, I plug the cable directly into the projector.
I put the machine in front of my TV set and a paper „as a screen“ before it. Then I adjust the right speed by starting the film and the BluRay until they go in sync.
I always start the recording on Super-8-reel 2, to assure that the main title music on reel 1 later is not to be adjusted. You would hear the differences.
If You start the recording You have the absolute control because You see film-and-BluRay on the same time running in Sync or not.

Thanks Oliver! So the cable you connect is plugged directly into the R and L Line inputs on your projector correct? Thanks for the pic showing how you project the film onto the image of the bluray player. I guess the key here is having a VARIABLE speed projector so you can get it just right.