How can I know whether a Kodak Brownie 8mm camera has film in it ?

[Glenn Davis]

I found my Dad's Kodak Brownie 8mm camera in his closet, and it *might* have film in it.
If so, it has been there since the 1970s; unfortunately Dad has passed away.
The footage indicator is at 23-1/2 feet and counts down when I press the exposure lever.

But the footage indicator might count down even when there is no film.
I looked at some youtube videos on this camera and cannot tell whether
the footage indicator is linked to the supply spindle or to the take-up spindle.

I found the user manual online, and this is a "double 8mm" (not Super8) camera.

S/N = 6354 Ektanon f/2.7 lens

If I knew the weight of an *empty* Brownie of this model, I could then weigh this
one and know for sure.

If there *is* film in it, it would be worth it to me to develop it
(with help from Film Rescue International at filmrescue.com),
even if I can only get a B&W negative, with digital scan.
It looks like only 1-1/2 feet on the current side of the film has been exposed,
but the *other* side might be exposed completely.

If there is no easy answer, what do you suggest I do ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Robin Khlop]

I would recommend opening the camera in a room with no light and try to feel if there is any film is in there. Even if some light gets into the camera only a few feet of film will be exposed, although it's best to avoid that from happening.

[Dominique De Bast]

I would recommend opening the camera in a room with no light and try to feel if there is any film is in there.

That's the best way to check if there is a film or not in the camera. If there is one inside, you should, in complete darkness, spool it to the end. After that, the problem you will have is to know which filmstock was in the camera. A colour film should be process as soon as possible when shoot. Black and white films tend to resist much longer.

[Maurice Leakey]

Glenn

If there is a film in the camera it is double 8. This gets put through the camera twice. Its length is nominally 25ft so the film is almost at the end of its run.

After processing the film is split down the middle and the two halves are joined together at the film lab to produce 50ft of double 8 film,. Double 8 is often referred to as standard eight, or regular eight.

I suggest you wind up the camera's spring and let it run. If there is film in it you should hear the intermittent motion as the film stops and starts sixteen times per second.

Similarly, when the end of the film comes the camera will be less noisy and probably you will just hear the motor running continuously.

Carefully remove the full take-up spool. If it is marked 1 or perhaps "Reverse Now" or similar, it can be placed in the feed position. The film is now threaded and run for its second half exposure. Load it under subdued light.

All double 8 cameras originally came with a take-up spool which would always live in the camera. On its first run as a take-up spool, and on its second run as a feed spool. This way, the film would be sent to a lab for processing on its original spool. The spool as supplied with the camera being retained for further use.

[Glenn Davis]

Thank you all for your helpful answers.


I hope it is OK if I ask a specific follow-up question that was only
vaguely implicit in the original question:

If there is no film in this camera, does the footage indicator count down
from 25 to 0 ft (turn clockwise) when the exposure lever is pressed ?

Since the footage indicator is closer to the take-up spindle
than the supply spindle, I guess that the answer is YES.

I am a little reluctant to open the camera in the dark, because I am
not confident I can replace the cover in the dark and lock it,
having never done that before, even in the light.
If I try that, I will look at some youtube videos first.

BTW. If there *is* film in this camera, it is probably Kodachrome II Daylight,
because part of the film box is now taped to the camera near the cover latch.

[Maurice Leakey]

Glenn

If the footage counter is at 23 and a half feet it's almost near the end of the roll, so, as the spools are reasonable light-tight, there is no real problem in opening the camera in subdued light.

If there is a small amount of film it's only this which will get fogged.

You won't know the answer to your questions until you do open the camera.

[Glenn Davis]

I am the Original Poster, and
have read the user manual for this camera, which I found at https://browniecam.com.

According to this user manual, after locking the cover, the user holds the
exposure lever down until the footage indicator shows 25.
During filming it then rotates clockwise to 0 and the end of the run.
Since the footage indicator is now at 23-1/2 feet, the film (if there is any) is now
near the *beginning* of its run.

Today I revisited browniecam.com and found that my camera is model 210, the original (1951).
I also looked at model 215, aka Brownie Movie Camera f/2.7 Model 2 (1956),
and there I see from the Kodak dealer catalogue (1958):

Footage Indicator:
The indicator is directly geared to the motor and shows at a glance
how much film remains to be exposed.

So for the model 215 (Movie Camera II) the answer to my question:

If there is no film in this camera, does the footage indicator count down
from 25 to 0 ft (turn clockwise) when the exposure lever is pressed ?

is surely YES. And for my model 210 (the original) the answer is *almost surely* YES.

So my conclusion is that the action of the footage indicator does NOT help
me know whether there is film in the camera.

I do not trust myself to open the camera in the dark,
since I am not confident that I can replace the cover in the dark.

So my current plan is to simply "film" something interesting and wait until
the footage indicator reaches 0 or the camera becomes "less noisy".
Then I will open it up and see what I've got !

Thank you everyone...

[Stuart Budd]

I recently digitized some family film on 8mm and Super 8. I noticed lots of out of focus and unsteady shots. Also panning left and right. No planning. Then I came across probably one of my uncles attempts. Steady shots of maybe 5 to 10 seconds long. No panning in focus. Well planned. Each clip was related, in this case kids playing and almost a documented clip of my gradmother and her friend walking through the streets of her home town. Again, done in short burst of filming. Not spliced, but in camera.
Good luck with your film.