Red Fox Wizard of Oz?

[Osi Osgood]

Did Red Fox Films ever release the MGM classic, " The Wizard of Oz"? The reason why I ask is that I know that when Red Fox Films went out of business, Derann bought they're existing prints as well as negatives.

[Mike Newell]

Can’t recall ever seeing a Red Fox print of Wizard of Oz but they could exist. Derann prints were around from 1986 /87 onwards. Some of the early prints the black and white sequences were in sepia later ones on colour stock more blue. You could get feature prints of Wizard from Italy. They also sold the spaghetti Clint Eastwood trilogy in feature length. Their negative quality were not that great even new and I’m sure they are bright pink by now.

[Adrian Winchester]

'Wizard' was a part of Derann's deal with MGM that I'd guess began around 1986 and resulted in new feature and trailer releases.

[Osi Osgood]

I know that, Adrian, but Red Fox also released some stellar low fade prints, such as "Adventures of Robin Hood", but they're prints tended to have a greenish tint to them, like the one that is being offered right now on eBay, hence my question in the first place.

[Mike Newell]

I think any Red Fox features out there as low fade prints have come from Derann using Red Fox negatives something they did on numerous occasions. The only Red Fox prints I saw on Derann stand at a convention about 1984/85 were San Francisco and Red Dust both black and white prints and I suspect they were also Derann but presented and labelled as Red Fox as a badge of convenience.

[Adrian Winchester]

Osi - I'm afraid my wording could have been clearer. I meant Derann definitely released certain MGM features that had not previously been (officially) available from other distributors. Having now looked through old Derann newsletters and copies of Keith Wilton's 'Super Eight Film Review', it's clear that 'Wizard' was released in late 1984 or early 1985. An early 1985 S8FR review refers to the complete feature being a Ken/Derann collaboration and mentions "the negative supplied to Rank required a lot of corrective work". Derann's responsibilities regarding prints/recording are also reflected in the format being 4 x 600', as when they reprinted US releases, I think they always used 400' spools, as on the original releases. But I expect Ken completely ceased trading by the time at least some of the subsequent MGM features were released.

The above S8FR also refers to Red Fox still producing "a number of new releases", and this was well into the low fade era. One mentioned is 'North by North West' ($319.95) which hadn't yet reached the UK but "reports say it is of 16mm quality". I have a Red Fox print of their full length 'The Time Machine', in the original Red Fox box, and the colour is still excellent.

[Osi Osgood]

Wow! I never knew "The Time Machine" was a full length feature! Luv this forum!

[Alexander Vandeputte]

To further deviate from the original topic. I have Red Fox prints (all Kodak LPP) of
THE BLACK STALLION
POLTERGEIST - flat
WAR GAMES
ROBIN HOOD
VICTOR, VICTORIA - flat

As reprint from Deran on Agfa low fade:
THE TIME MACHINE
NORTH BY NORTHWEST
THE BAND WAGON

These are nice prints, thanks to the fact that Red Fox obviously had access to decent quality pre-print negatives.

[Stuart Reid]

I have owned a full length Red Fox of TWoOz, it was quite grainy with good colour. That's going back about 20 years though.

[Osi Osgood]

Ahhh! So, Red Fox DID release it? I have seen prints of both " The Black Stallion" and "Wargames", and they were both great prints, especially "Stallion".

[Osi Osgood]

The other reason for this question is that someone is selling a print of "OZ", and it is definitely grainey, as well as that slightly greenish tint, but is being sold as a Derann print. I'm not so sure. Obviously, marketing your merchandise as "Derann" gives it more potential value.

[Stuart Reid]

Osi, I've seen the Derann print and it is superior to the Red Fox, nowhere near as grainy.

[Adrian Winchester]

I'm astonished to learn of a Red Fox release and wonder if it might have been a briefly-available limited edition, as it's surprising that even Keith Wilton referred to the Derann/Ken release as the first opportunity to obtain it full length. And as Red Fox were still releasing new product at the time of the Derann/Ken release, it's difficult to imagine MGM granting rights to Ken to sell it in the USA, if it was still being offered by Red Fox. If anyone has some old Red Fox catalogues, it would be very interesting to discover when their release was available.

[Osi Osgood]

Well, if Red Fox Films still existed as a company, when Derann released they're "OZ", Keith would not be in error, if Red Fox released they're prints after Derann released they're prints. After all, they were competitors. I do agree about the Derann "OZ", that it is a very good print. Well, after all, they had access to MGM negatives directly, where Red Fox may have had a "second hand" negative that, while passable, would obviously not be up to the MGM negatives, that may well have even been from a restored print as, even in the late 70's on, they were reissuing these to theaters and we're already doing restorations to these classics.

[Adrian Winchester]

Keith's review said "The definition and quality of the two b/w sequences is very good, the colour sections being a bit softer with the colour a bit pale from time to time. The sound is excellent, having come from a good master, unlike the unused track sent from MGM which was of poorer quality."

If Red Fox were willing to invest in a release in competition with the Derann/Ken one, they would have had to be quick. An interesting article about the history of Red Fox in the Summer 2021 'Film Collector' says they decided to "get out of film" in the mid-1980s, so their final releases were probably in 1985 or 1986. A summer 1988 Derann newsletter refers to "another consignment of Red Fox negs due any day now".

The Film Collector article also provides an insight into "the MGM connection". It mentions that Red Fox boss Ron Knorr became friends with Herb Nusbaum, a MGM attorney. Herb helped to resolve any legal issues and being a film collector may have added to his motivation, as Ron paid him in films!