(One More) Filmguard Question

[Oliver Feld]

I cleaned THE SNOWMAN with Filmguard because the former owner left some lines of a hardly cleaned machine on the film. Now the image is clear but there are „greasy lines“ visible; on the material and of course on the screen. They look like blue shadows from top to bottom. I know this from several Derann prints, but here it is really noticeable (too much white snow in this most wonderful short!)
Does this happen when there was another film cleaner used before?
What is the best way to avoid this?
Are these „greasy lines“ removable?
I would appreciate every thought about this issue.

[Phil Moors]

Oliver, could this be caused by over application of your cleaner. I remember years ago over applying a cleaner which made it look as though I was showing the film on a rainy window. Good luck, The Snowman is a great release by Derann.

[Pierre Mdihi]

Hi all,

I have a question regarding this product. I have read on a site made by a film archiviste that this product du to his composition accelerate the vinegar syndrome, do you have feedback regarding this issue ?

Best regards,

Pierre

[Lee McCaffrey]

All the evidence points to an application of filmguard still allowing the film to 'breathe' normally, provided the film is correctly stored with adequate ventilation etc. Over time the filmguard evaporates completely anyway.
Oliver in my experience over applied filmguard either looks like vertical watery streaks/runs or little sparkles where beads form on the surface and scatter light. When applying by hand it can be beneficial to do a second pass with a dry cloth so that only a thin layer remains.

[Oliver Feld]

Lee
Thank You.
What kind of cloth do You use?

[Oliver Feld]

Phil
This might be…
I spray onto my cloth but maybe too much.
Thank You

[Rob Young]

I agree with Lee. It has been said many times here that it is easy to over apply Filmguard. It is a tremendous product and I've never had a problem with it. But I always gently run the film back on the rewinds with a dry 100% cotton cloth (washed to remove any starch) to remove any excess and smooth the application.

It's a professional product originally designed for commercial prints that would be run time and time again and it will evaporate.

I have many prints treated over 15 years ago that had a sparse application, a dry clean and a couple of projections and then boxed, that still look amazing when projected recently.

[Lee McCaffrey]

Oliver, I've only ever used Pec Pads when applying filmguard by hand between rewinds. Whatever cloth you use it's important it's not saturated with filmguard, and to check for buildup of dirt in the cloth as you go and change to a fresh section when necessary.

[Steven J. Kirk]

I buy a 100% cotton pillowcase and cut it up, using each swatch only once.

[Arnau Pell]

Hi friends! I take the post to add a question. It is not always easy to get Filmguard or similar renowned products in Spain / Europe at a reasonable price or quantity to clean and maintain the films. What do you think of the use of isopropyl alcohol to clean and maintain the films? I read that it was an alternative (others pointed to wd40 for example) and I would like to know the opinions of this great forum. greetings to all!

[Oliver Feld]

Rob, Lee, Steven

Thank You very, very much!

[Maurice Leakey]

[QUOTE=.....What do you think of the use of isopropyl alcohol to clean and maintain the films? I read that it was an alternative (others pointed to wd40 for example.....[/QUOTE]

In reply to Arnau's comment above.
Isopropyl alcohol is great for cleaning film, but is not suitable for lubrication.
WD 40 is a "no go" as it contains an abrasive.

[Joseph Banfield]

Arnau, you opened the proverbial can of worms regarding WD40 as a cleaner and lubricant! I have not heard of anyone mentioning WD40 since back in the days of the old forum.

I seem to recall reading somewhere on the old forum years ago where Kodak themselves tested WD40 and claimed it faded color film. Perhaps Kodak tested it on their glorious Eastman color film that magically turns red on its own without treatment. I remain highly sceptical that Kodak did any serious testing on a product they themselves did not even produce, nor was ever marketed as being useful for film. But if that is indeed true I certainly hope Kodak had the insight to also test products like Lemon Pledge, Wishbone Salad Dressing and Scouring Bubbles just to be sure!

I tried WD40 on an unwanted color film years ago and it still looks exactly the same to this day. What I did notice about WD40 was that it was excellent for making base side film scratches (black lines) completely disappear and the film would run very smoothly through the gate as well. But I believe products like Film Renew also do the same as well.

There were other people who claimed silicone wipes did wonders too, although I never tried it myself so can't really comment on that. I'm sure many people have tried all sorts of potions on film through the decades!

[Pierre Mdihi]

I have found the article about the vinegar syndrom causing by special cleaning products.

I am able to certify that my triacetate films treated with this, and some other, product, are more prone to vinegar syndrome than those untreated. Therefore, it is better to avoid the application on cellulose triacetate films according to what they are (sorry: I cannot mention them here, nor of course their brands).
Since films are a desirable commodity in the movie enthusiast market, many have been treated with a substance that uses the same refractive index as film to "fill in" scratches to maintain a clean appearance in projection. Scratches and scratches from the mount on a positive normally refract light, making them appear black on the screen). With polyester there is no problem, but with triacetate, adding one of the brands sold for this process produces an autocatalytic effect, which accelerates decomposition.
Conclusion: the sad certainty is that all triacetate films chemically treated with certain products, or poorly washed after development, will eventually succumb to vinegar syndrome (sooner rather than later if conservation has not been ideal)

Source: http://mimundoensuper-8.blogspot.com...&max-results=7

[Lee McCaffrey]

Interesting that the above article makes a point of not mentioning a single 'harmful' product by name. How does this help anyone reading the article, how are they supposed to know which of their cleaning products is harmful and what would be safe to use in its place? If the author is confident in their findings they would gladly share the harmful brand names as a public service to fellow collectors.

If filmguard was causing accelerated VS in acetate stock I think we would have heard about it by now from distraught collectors. There was a treatment called Photoguard/Scotchguard which completely sealed the print and made it far more durable, something like that could accelerate VS as the chemicals naturally formed by the acetate would be unable to outgas.

Regarding WD40 yes it has been discussed before, it can leach the dyes out in colour film stock:

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb...=003009#000012

The silicone wipes thread on the old forum was interesting as it eventually became a thread about treating emulsion scratches with water; the gelatine swells and as it dries and shrinks back down the proteins form new connections, annealing the sharp edges of the scratches making them less visible on projection. The armor-all wipes used contained silicon and water, my guess is that the thin layer of silicon left on the film after cleaning was sufficient to stop the emulsion sticking to the base as it dried (blocking). In the end the manufacturer of the wipes, having been contacted about the use on film, recommended they not be used for film cleaning so that was that, but the subject moved to rewashing (as the process of soaking/swelling the emulsion is known) and many forum members trying it out and finding films rejuvenated by the process. I have looked into it myself however there are caveats, colour film stock goes through a final stabiliser bath at the end of processing in order to harden the emulsion, fix the dye molecules in place and protect it from microbial organisms which will literally eat the gelatine (black and white stock does not have this problem as the presence of silver acts as a biocide). So rewashing can rejuvenate film but can also have a negative effect on long-term stability if not done properly, I think though you would have to properly soak the film for an extended period to remove the stabiliser chemicals though.