First pirated copies of movies?

[Dale Desrochers]

Hey everyone.
Would anyone know what year approx., the first pirated copies of movies were made for illegal public purchase? I would assume as soon as 8mm cameras and projectors were affordable for home use (1920s), movie houses or others were making 8mm copies (+ 16mm) of the legally screened theater movies.
How would people have obtained these early pirated copies back then?
Thank you.

[Steve Klare]

Sometimes I think two days after the first cave painting was done, some other caveman was making an illegal copy two caves away! Two days after that somebody else two caves further painted an explicate cave painting and porn was born. (The only constant in History is Human Nature!)

I'd guess even before the home gauges came out there was piracy on 35mm for commercial use, especially for use in places that copyright just couldn't reach.

If you read "A Thousand Cuts: The Bizarre Underground World of Collectors and Dealers Who Saved the Movies" they talk a lot about pirate film: how sometimes after the last show prints would be run out the back doors of theaters, have a pirate negative struck and be back up in the booth before breakfast. (It's a great read!)

[Ed Gordon]

Thousand Cuts is a great read. Also see:

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...he-digital-age

[Gary Sayers]

Sometimes I think two days after the first cave painting was done, some other caveman was making an illegal copy two caves away! Two days after that somebody else two caves further painted an explicate cave painting and porn was born. (The only constant in History is Human Nature!)

Steve, that's hilarious!

Your posts are always a funny, great read and really add something special to the forum. Just thought it was time you were given some credit. Seriously, some of your posts should be collected together and published. They always bring a smile to my face.

[Steve Klare]

Thanks, Gary,

-it's a shame (at least today) I can't spell "explicit!" (Can't always blame spell-check!)

I actually write professionally: it's just they are usually technical documents: "Using a calibrated voltmeter, measure the voltage on each phase".

(-not a lot of yucks there!)

[Osi Osgood]

Hey, that's how so many features were released in Italy! Right from the projection Boothe to the optical printers. Sometimes this was a good thing, but only when the screened print wasn't totally annialated during it's run. I once had a copy of " The Rescuers" which was in letterboxed and the color wasn't too bad, but gawd!! That print was so stricken with scratches and splices that one wonders why they bothered!

[Gary Sayers]

Ah, that makes sense now Steve. I did sort of wonder if you did some sort of professional writing, such as magazine or local newspapers or even a blog. A well written technical document can make all the difference to one's sanity, as many on this forum will attest.

Sorry, I've taken the thread way off topic. All I can say Dale, is that I agree about 'A Thousand Cuts..........' being a terrific book, although the last few chapters do make depressing reading when you are presented with how it all will end for the obsessive film collector.

[Clive Casey]

I remember in the 80s when I was a projectionist, we sat watching a film, can’t remember which film, and a scrawl flashed across the film, like change over dots if you blinked you would have missed it. After we watched the film we examined it on the rewind bench, across 1 frame had been scratched the copy number of the print. I can only guess it was the early days of tracking where the print had been and check for pirated video tapes. I think later it might have got a little more sophisticated. But at least it was a start to try and combat some piracy.

[Dale Desrochers]

Wow, thanks so much everyone for your replies and insight. I remember the excitement when movies were first sold on VHS tapes, and being able to actually own a movie "forever" for only around $60. I was oblivious to the fact that movies were available for purchase in one form or another, starting over half a century before Where there's money to be made...

[Rob Young]

Clive, I went to the cinema a lot as a kid in the 80's (some may say too much) and I remember those print numbers flashing up. Our local had Back to the Future and as the Delorean skids to a halt with the back wheel full frame, the print number popped up. I saw it several times and even now when I watch the Blu-ray I expect that etched on number to pop up!!

There is even an etched on print number on the 35mm print of Gremlins that Derann used to make the 2 x 600ft extract. So those etched on print numbers made it to super 8.

[Mark Barton]

The Italian market during the 70's and 80's was rife with pirated super 8 features, supposedly this grew massively when Italian TV was deregulated and anybody could run a TV station. Only prob is they didn't have any shows/films to broadcast or money to by said productions, so what better than broadcast a big Hollywood film that cost you the price of the film stock and chemicals.. I'll be honest I have the following on 'Captain Jack super 8': The Towering Inferno (2 copies) RollerBall, War of the Worlds, Close Encounters of the third kind, Dr No, For your Eyes Only and Live and Let Die. The print quality is awful and I have yet to redub into English, but I love owning them because they are film, not tape, not a digital file, film.

[Osi Osgood]

In case anybody has thought of the question, besides myself, "Are super 8 optical sound prints, pirate films?" The answer is no. The optical sound features were legally authorized, by the parent studio, prints. Now, were they supposed to end up in film collectors hands? The answer is also no. They were all supposed to have been chopped up and destroyed after they're allotted release dates.. A few (compared to all the legally marketed to consumers super 8, yes, a few). We're somehow sold to Collectors, but this was nearer to the end of super 8. So, yes, legal, for collectors? No. Just another thing that makes collecting them fun!

[Joe Caruso]

Chaplins were among the first to be "copied" during the 1920s, (1923 especially, when 16mm was ushered in), and Keystones...nothing else full-fledged until the advent of 8mm in 1932...yet, during the 20's there were travelling medicine shows that sold films "in the back of the wagon", this was accomplished through States Rights Channels, after screening, the exchange would sell prints to exhibitors and dealers, most all the "name" folks in Hollywood had private collections, sort of evolved from that and we are still finding prints that can be traced back to original buyers...fascinating...Shorty