Playback speed

[Dave Bickford]

I recently purchased a couple of Super 8mm silent animated shorts on eBay. When played back at the customary 18fps they look slow and choppy. When played back at 24fps they look normal. Were some silent films distributed this way? I thought 24fps was normally for sound films. All of the silent films I bought when I was a kid are 18fps. Looks like the distributor was Tech Film. One of the boxes has some wording on it that appears to be Italian.

[Brian Fretwell]

Yes when an originally sound film (as I suspect these were) was released as silent version it was made from the same negative just not striped. The difference in price was often minimal. Techno (and Walton) often made the same title available in sound and silent versions, sometimes also in B&W for a colour film too.

[Dave Bickford]

Yes when an originally sound film (as I suspect these were) was released as silent version it was made from the same negative just not striped.

Very interesting! Must have sucked for those who only had 18fps silent projectors back in the day. I guess I won't be watching these on my Bolex 18-5L.

[Maurice Leakey]

Dave
If you can find any films made before the introduction of sound then they will play at around 16 frames per second. Examples such Charlie Chaplin and Our Gang comedies.

[Steve Klare]

There is a lot to be said for showing silents at 18FPS. I find my machines' transports are much louder at 24FPS and without a soundtrack to cover the machinery noise it becomes obtrusive.

You can always tell a 24FPS print projected at 18: it's the walks. A 24FPS human being walking at 18 has a very leisurely walk, kind of like it's a really nice day, there is nothing on the schedule and they just want to take in the scenery! (It's the kind of walk you never want your manager to see on you!)

I have one sound film meant for 18 FPS projection: kind of a home movie somebody else shot which I bought on E-bay. I figured this out because at one point there's this crowd of people standing there and their conversation is just a hint of Munchkin Land at 24 FPS. I'm staying at 24 with this one because at 40 minutes it's already maybe 15 minutes too long: 53 minutes may be too much to endure!

[Dave Bickford]

Dave
If you can find any films made before the introduction of sound then they will play at around 16 frames per second. Examples such Charlie Chaplin and Our Gang comedies.

Funny you mentioned that. I have a Super 8mm silent copy of "A Trip To The Moon" ("Le voyage dans la lune"), the infamous 1902 film by Georges Méliès. At 18fps it actually looks too fast. This is the film I'm referring to. This particular version appears to be adjusted for 16fps. My version is faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLVChRVfZ74

But having said that, the films in question are a Scooby Doo and an Elmer Fudd cartoon, so not quite so old.

[Joseph Banfield]

The opposite can be true regarding silent films before 1930 with an added music track that is recorded at 24 fps instead of being done at 18 fps to match the original film speed. In that case the movement on screen is too fast when played back at 24 fps.

Film-Office in France did this with their silent releases with added sound, as well as many other distributors. The solution, of course, is to copy the 24 fps sound to the computer and digitally stretch it using Adobe Audition so it keeps its original pitch using their built-in filters designed so that the end result does not sound slowed down or altered in any way. After that process is complete you simply rerecord it back to the film at 18 fps and enjoy!

[Brian Fretwell]

I have read that sound only made film speed consistent between film companies and that just before then it could be any speed between 16 and 27 fps!

[Maurice Leakey]

I have read that sound only made film speed consistent between film companies and that just before then it could be any speed between 16 and 27 fps!

In the days before sound which required a constant speed of 24 fps silent cinema projectors had a meter to show their running speed, and as Brian says, there were differing speeds stated for various films.

In fact, it was known on a film's last evening run that the projectionists would increase the speed so that they could finish work earlier than usual.

[John Armer]

I have read that sound only made film speed consistent between film companies and that just before then it could be any speed between 16 and 27 fps!

And, to be correctly screened, some silent films need to be projected at different speeds within the duration of the film itself!

[Maurice Leakey]

Here is a photo of the picture head of the Kalee 11 projector which clearly shows its Film Speed Indicator.
Kalee 11 : 35mm projector ~ 1938 | projectkevp | Flickr