New Member - So what had happened was.....

[Alister Hibbert]

So, I was trawling the local Goodwill Outlet (the one with the big blue bins where you buy stuff by the pound) and saw part of an old school Kodak Brownie projector. In another bin was the missing cover and in yet another bin, the original box. As in total it was pretty weighty (EVERYTHING is 'heavy' when you are paying by the pound!), negotiated a price of $8 and took it home.

Other than the fact that the reflector had come loose (easily hooked back into place) it seemed complete. Fired it up an seemed to work great. Got a few cheap films on eBay and sure enough, everything works!

And there was the problem. I was hooked. So, I have picked up a few other 8mm projectors. One that I came across and picked up today is a Keystone Regal K-109. It's beautiful, no two ways about it. Even has an accessory drawer with a splicer and a goodness knows how old bottle of cement.

Anyway, I gave it a quick run and seems to work fine, just a little slow unless I turned up the rheostat on the back (probably by design). But I've now turned it off as I am concerned that it may have been sitting a while and need lubrication.

I had run across this site (or the old archived one) when looking up some of the other projectors I have obtained. A lot of information for sure and have already had some questions answered without having to ask thanks to the helpful responses to posts by others. So many thanks!

So now to my question/request, which is twofold.

1) I was hoping that someone might have a manual for this item. I had run across posts in my search where some members had offered a PDF, but it seems rude to just PM them out of the blue 'without an invite', so thought it was more appropriate to ask here.
2) As for the lubrication points, I see reference to 'openings marked in red all over', but I can only seem to find two on mine, one near each sprocket (see pic). Am I just missing something, or is it possible they deleted a couple, and if so, would you recommend partial disassembly for further lubrication?

Thanks in advance!

[Douglas Meltzer]

Alister,

Welcome to the Forum. Congratulations on becoming hooked on 8mm! Please PM me with your email address and I'll send you a scan of the Keystone K-109-D manual.

[Janice Glesser]

It's definitely not rude to PM me. I have the manual for the k109. Please PM me and indicate the manual you wish.

[Shane C. Collins]

Alister,

Welcome to the forum! You will soon discover this is one of the best forums online! Everyone here is very friendly, and always willing to help! I have met some wonderful people! I once had the Keystone Regal K-109, and as you mentioned, it really is a beautiful projector. I used it all the time, and at some point I got rid of it. I can't even remember why I let this projector go. Once you add some lubrication you should notice it running much smoother. It seems mine was slower, and a bit noisier until I added oil. Anyways enjoy your new projectors, and don't be afraid to ask questions..

[Alister Hibbert]

Thanks everyone!

I've looked through both of the manuals and it's interesting. Mine is definitely the K109 with the nameplate in line with the reel support arms, as well as the rocker switch under the pilot light rather than the rotary switch of the K109D.

However, it definitely only has the two lubrication holes, one near the top sprocket, one near the bottom (apparently like the K109D). I did find 'overhead' pictures finally of a K109 that shows the other two lubrication points and mine definitely does not have those.

Also, wondering if mine has had some repair in it's life. Neither of the spindles have the 'fold down clip' type of retainer, but a wire spring type of retainer. Definitely a different style and not just 'missing parts'. Seemed to work fine in my small test earlier, but not what either model appears to have according to the manuals.

Makes me think that this may be a transition model maybe? Where a manufacturer will use up old parts when bringing out a new model?

I will post pictures tomorrow. Got to clear some clutter off my workbench first to get some good pics, but I wanted to be sure to respond this evening.

[Osi Osgood]

Welcome to our motley Crew!

[Robie Lutsey]

Ha! I can completely relate! I just recently joined after finding a tube based 16mm projector at my habitat restore. I've already spent 3x as much on parts and film as I did on the projector. Ah well. Just sit back and enjoy the ride, eh?

[Alister Hibbert]

So here are the pics. The first (hopefully) confirms that it is indeed a K109. The second shows the rocker type switch. The third shows the 'plan' view and you can see there are no oil holes where expected. The 4th is of the spindle with the spring retainer rather than the 'fold down clip' type retainer. Does that spindle look it may be a post manufacture replacement? Just curious is all.

[Arnau Pell]

Alister,

Welcome to this great family!

[Ken Finch]

Hi Alister. Welcome to our happy band of eccentrics. Whilst I am not familiar with your particular model of projector, I do know that you do not necessarily have to have a lubrication point for every bearing. I would suggest that the ones on the sprocket spindles feed oil to all the other parts. Often by way of little brass tubing. This was often the case with many mechanical objects of the period. The manual may confirm this. Very often, the top sprocket oil hole also lubricates the claw cam mechanism and the bottom one any gearing anywhere else. Ken Finch.😊

[Janice Glesser]

On the k109 the oiling points have holes painted in red. However I guess some of the red could have worn off.

[Alister Hibbert]

On the k109 the oiling points have holes painted in red. However I guess some of the red could have worn off.

I did look for that (just in case) but the holes are actually just not there. Not even 'plugged'. My guess is, like any product, it's design was probably was tweaked a little over it's life before it became the K109-D. Or it was an example from the end of the K109 product line and they were using up parts.

The part I'm not sure 'what the deal is' relates more to the spindles. I thought it might be a cost saving measure, but the K109-D appears to also have the more traditional 'fold down' retainer. Or, it might just be a 'we ran out, so we sourced from elsewhere'.

All just conjecture. Was wondering if someone else had one with similar spindles.

I guess I just like knowing what happened. 20 odd years ago, when I was living in the UK, I used to visit small/medium sized factories as part of my job and loved just seeing how things were made, how they tackled hiccups and the ingenuity they would show getting around a problem such as a lack of a necessary part, redesigning the bill of materials on the fly and getting things moving. Just the style of manufacturing that still had a soul.

I guess a part of me was wondering if there was a little story behind the spindle!

[Alister Hibbert]

Hi Alister. Welcome to our happy band of eccentrics. Whilst I am not familiar with your particular model of projector, I do know that you do not necessarily have to have a lubrication point for every bearing. I would suggest that the ones on the sprocket spindles feed oil to all the other parts. Often by way of little brass tubing. This was often the case with many mechanical objects of the period. The manual may confirm this. Very often, the top sprocket oil hole also lubricates the claw cam mechanism and the bottom one any gearing anywhere else. Ken Finch.😊

That could well be the case. I will likely remove the motor cover and take a look. The K109-D (which has just the two oiling points like mine) manual says that the rest of the machine is 'lubricated for life'. But life typically did not mean 60 years or more! Even the best grease/oil is not going to be at it's finest after that long!

[Ken Finch]

That’s. a good idea Alister. I have used a touch of 3 in one oil to good effect but use very sparingly. Much depends on what was the original lubricant as sometimes it is a very light grease. Ken Finch.😊