Eumig HID conversion

[Alan Myers]

I was talking to someone last week who said that it may be worth getting my Eumig 807 converted to HID lighting, is this something that can be done with these Eumigs? I have read an article previously but have no idea who can do this these days.

[Brian Fretwell]

Lee has done many Eumig 800 series conversions and I am about to try it myself. Good luck if you try it yourself.

[Alan Myers]

Where does one start with a project like that?
If Lee is looking in, I wonder, could he put up some leads on where to start and what costs are involved.
Does it make a lot of difference to the screen image? I've heard about this but not seen much about how to get one done.

[Maurice Leakey]

Alan
One point about the HID 150 conversion is that the lamp has to stay on all the time. It cannot be switched on and off like the original lamp. Therefore some kind of dowser is needed to obscure the light beam from the gate and film frames when lacing a further film to run.

Also, there is the ballast, I doubt if there would be enough room in the small Eumig to accommodate it.

I have a 16mmm Bell & Howell HID 150 conversion and the light is fabulous and very white.

Venture Ventronic VYC150255 150 watt Electronic Ballast For HID Lamps (lamps2udirect.com)
Lamps Xenpow HID-150 Lamp - 148-LAMP88 | Simply Sound & Lighting (simplysoundandlighting.co.uk)

[Brian Fretwell]

Also for cooling these lamps the Eumigs are good for conversion as the fan is on as soon as they are plugged in, though I think some people put an additional fan in by the lamp.

[Alan Myers]

It all sounds very involved, I've been looking at other options for a better light output as I understand reading elsewhere that the HID bulbs are going to be hard to get and the ballast as well.
Perhaps looking at something like a GS1200 or other make may give a better image. I like my old Eumig but I've never been very happy with the 100w bulbs.
Perhaps if Lee is looking in, he could help, I have been looking at some of his past threads regarding HID and it looks so very good.

[Maurice Leakey]

Alan
How about the Elmo ST-120O D Magnetic?
It's got a 150 watt lamp and an f.1/1 lens.
Spare part finder – Van Eck Video Services (van-eck.net)
I don't recommend the GS-1200. In my time I had three of them and all had serious faults that needed expensive repairs.

[Shane C. Collins]

Another often overlooked area for improvement is upgrading the lens. Not sure which lens you are using, but it looks like many of these 807 machines came with a 1.6 zoom lens. A 1.6 is not very bright on screen compared to say a 1.0 or a 1.2. Your 807 uses the cam style focusing knob. There are several lens upgrades that could be done to improve your brightness on screen. The 1.2 Suprogon is a fine performing lens, and would give nice bright images.

Recently I upgraded my Eumig Mark S Super machine to a Eumig Euprolux 1.1 prime lens. This machine however uses the early twist-to-focus system, which is different from yours. Anyways the prime lens has really brightened things up, and is a very sharp contrasty lens. The down side is you need a longer throw, but I don't mind a slightly smaller image since the results are quite nice! The advantage of a prime lens is less glass and less light scatter, the Euprolux is a 6 element lens.

[Alan Myers]

Thanks for the replies so far. I use the Eumig suprogon 1.2 lens, this one is an improvement in itself.
Maurice, those GS1200 projectors are one of the top machines from my understanding.
I know many years ago there was repair man who specialised in the Elmo's, I cant recall his name, but the last time I spoke with him around eight years ago he spoke very highly of the GS, as long as they were serviced and modified they were very reliable and had the best sound and a great picture.

I often see the the 1200 D model for sale, there is also a HD too, they seem to the most common available, whats the difference between them? I guess all of our projectors will be getting too old for repairs before too many more years, then what happens?

As for my question about the HID, the more i read into this the more i think it's a waste of time and money on a machine like the Eumigs, my spool capacity is only 600ft and this is another thing i want to upgrade on but the projectors that take the larger reels are either elmo or Beaulieu, but i dont know much about either to jump ship.

[Paul Adsett]

Alan, there is no doubt that a fully functional GS1200 is about as good as it gets in terms of super 8 projection. The problem is finding one that is free of problems and has been very well looked after and maintained. If you are prepared to put in the time and effort to do that, then you will be glad that you got one, but there's no doubt that they can be an expensive headache. I have two GS's and they are both running beautifully and reliably, But to get to this point I have had to spend many hours changing out microswitches, amplifier boards, relays, and motors etc. Now, recently adding an external 250 watt power supply to drive an ELC lamp, which I found doubles the light output of the original lamp, my super 8 projection is better than it has ever been.
I have zero experience with the HID lamp, but decided to go for the 250 watt ELC conversion instead for a couple of reasons. First I did not like the limitation of having to have the HID lamp on at all times. For me this would be a pain between reel changes. Second, I have heard that the much higher color temperature of the HID lamp reduces color saturation when showing color prints. I dont know if that is true, but I did not like that possibility. No doubt if you are looking at very large screens HID may be the only way to go, but I do agree with Shane - get yourself an f1.0 lens first and see for yourself what an amazing improvement that can give you.

[Maurice Leakey]

...If you are prepared to put in the time and effort to do that, then you will be glad that you got one, but there's no doubt that they can be an expensive headache...

I totally agree with Paul's comment.
The problem with a GS-1200 is the fact that they are considered over-engineered, and have five motors.
After my expensive repairs mine all worked perfectly. But now, I am 88 years old, and they have all been sold. They were too heavy to lift.

[Lee Mannering]

Alan. Definitely not a waist of time if you want a lamp that delivers a powerful light, lamps can last up to 1000 hours and even make pink films enjoyable again. The new s8 releases look great with hid and particularly my s8 home movies.
Lamp technology has evolved quite a way which reminds me of my late father's stories of using car bulbs in his 17.5mm projector looking very yellow on screen.

My HID conversions started when I decided to thin down my large collection of as new Eumigs, but having successfully come up with a workable design I gradually converted them all. A very long job.

The attraction of the humble Eumig is they are light, can project both 8mm gauges and well built.

My own 824 has hid lighting, a lamp timer and digital sound output, a reelly great machine to use plus a range of prime lenses I've made up for the old gal.

Of course I use the shutter inching control to engage as a downer when stationary.

Down to my last couple of spare Eumigs to convert and I usually plop one on my table at the film fairs.


The Reel Image keep a stock of lamps and other very useful parts for machine's.

[Alan Myers]

Sounds great Lee, so where should i start? What are the costs involved and also, how does it improve a red or pink film? Now i am intrigued

[Brian Fretwell]

I believe that, as with a blue filter, the higher blue content of the light from an HID lamp increases the blue seen on screen balancing out (a bit) that lost by the fading.
You can estimate the cost from the links to the suppliers of the most important components in Maurice's posts above.

[Alan Myers]

Sounds like a very expensive way to gain a little colour. The gels cost pennies, I do get that the HID is much brighter but the costs involved for my Eumig, or any other older machine would be better put to buying a better machine with the advantage of the bigger spool size capacity, better Len's and spool capacity.
Another one I have looked at, (but wouldn't be able to be done with the Eumigs as far as I know), is the HTI (High Tension Intensity).
I've done a little bit of digging on here and found this old thread, very interesting, but way way out of my league, and I suspect it will throw the HID out the window now I've seen this.

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-b...c;f=1;t=006219

It's quite a fun thread too, so many people talk utter bollocks when those who think they know but dont, try to talk down those who do know.

I also saw the name of the repair guy in this old thread that was I was trying to remember, Bill Parsons. I see in this thread it was he who did the HTI conversion, which seems to way outclass the HID, that is one hell of an achievement, I would love to see what it looks like on screen.

After reading all the threads and seeing the monies involved I think I will look into a better projector. Aside that, for the sake of home projection, It all looks like overkill to me and with the price of electricity and the bulbs, (while they are still available) I cant see it's worth it for the small collection I have.
Lee, (or anyone else) who has done a conversion, are you able to put up the steps involved in doing one of the HID's, It would be very useful to see.
Thank you.