Delving into 8mm (Eumig 824 problem or my inexpreriance?)

[Ivan Plazacic]

Hi Everyone.

Thanks for approving me on the forum, and let me preface this post by saying: please be gentile. <3

In short about me: I mainly do digital video production, but I was always fond of analog technologies: film, VHS, vinyl, etc. I also use a 35mm SLR for my vacation photos and DSLRs for work, but my only experience with video on film was a 16mm project I've done at school.

Recently, I procured a whole box of R8/S8 reels from my partner's grandfather (from around the mid-'50s to late '80s), and I took it upon myself to digitize them. Nothing super fancy, but just getting the REELZ machine, cleaning the film, scanning it, and adjusting it a bit in post so that the family can watch them.

I also got my first projector in the process - Eumig 824. I liked the fact that it can play both R8 and S8, and sound, since I don't know if or how many of these have sound on them.

Trying to play some of these on Eumig has proven to be challenging - I can't tell if it's the lack of experience or just a broken projector. The projector has sat around for 30-40 years, according to the previous owner, and ran only a few times. When I opened it up, I was amazed by the attention to detail (I have some experience fixing electronic devices) and the fact that it's pretty clean inside. The lubricants seem still fresh, there is no rust, oxidization, or mold and the bulb seems almost brand-new. But, the film just doesn't run properly. I tried a very clean S8 film and the end result is - it keeps running with the frame sort of split in 3, no matter the designated fps. So, it seems as if the shutter is just not aligning properly with the film or it runs too fast. I also noticed that the "frame line" knob doesn't really do much? It seems as if it's a random screw screwed in the chassis of the projector . . . I can just unscrew it and pull the whole thing out, it's just not moving anything when rotated.

Anyways, I'd appreciate any advice and looking forward to learning more about 8mm film in general.

[David Strelitz]

Welcome to the forum.
The 824 is an excellent projector 📽️.
Are you aware that there are different gates and cogs for std8 and sup8 AND when changing the gates you rotate the knob at the end of the projector with the dot at the top. This retracts the claw. If you don't/haven't you may be up sh£t creek if the claw pin has snapped. Replacing it requires not only a replacement but a Eumig repairer with a special tool.

[Jim Seaburg]

Welcome Ivan!

My question to you first off is when you’re projecting the film does it flutter and won’t hold the picture steady? Did you trim the end of the film so the leader has a crescent shape going into the projector?
Lastly and most importantly do you have the correct aperture adapter in the film gate for 8mm if you’re playing 8mm film or same for Super 8? This is very important because you have to change the plate for both. Also there is a change of sprockets that has to be done.
I have the 824 model and all the above has to be done before playing a film. The sprockets and aperture plate has to be changed for each format. 8mm can’t run correctly if things are set for Super 8 and vice versa.
Hopefully this is the problem and a very simple fix. This could also explain why the framer won’t function.
Good luck!

[Ivan Plazacic]

Thanks for the responses guys!

Welcome to the forum.
The 824 is an excellent projector 📽️.
Are you aware that there are different gates and cogs for std8 and sup8 AND when changing the gates you rotate the knob at the end of the projector with the dot at the top. This retracts the claw. If you don't/haven't you may be up sh£t creek if the claw pin has snapped. Replacing it requires not only a replacement but a Eumig repairer with a special tool.

Yes!
I read the manual before doing this so I made sure everything is set properly. I looked at the claw when the gate is outside and it has only one pin that pulls the film. I presume that's normal since it's such a small format?

Did you trim the end of the film so the leader has a crescent shape going into the projector?

I did trim the film, but it seems to have cut off just a tiny bit off the corner. Is that how it's supposed to be?

Everything I wrote above pertains to S8, so I did put in the different set of sprockets and the different gate. I'm assuming the one with the "S" on it is the one for super? I haven't tried the R8 yet because those are some of the older stocks in the box so they might be in a worse state and/or more fragile, but I might try to find a good one to run.

The one thing that I can't account for is this little plastic insert that I don't know where it's supposed to go nor what it's for.

[Simon Wyss]

The lubricants seem still fresh and the bulb seems almost brand-new.

That is wishful thinking. After 30 to 40 years no lubricant is worth anything. Also to judge a lamp by simply looking at it is banana.

You have a demanding model. The sintered bronze bearings need more lubricants than the designers thought at the time. The motor bearings are inaccessible but need lubrication, too. To round this off, two-formatters cannot be as kind to the films as regular apparatus.

My advice is that you take the Eumig to somebody who is trained in such mechanisms for a service.

[Jim Seaburg]

The plastic insert is really nothing useful or important. Mine fell off too. I kept it but it doesn’t effect anything. It fits over the switch that’s noted soundstripe 1, 1+2, 2.
Good that you have the instructions and that you’ve followed them.
Personally I have no problem with my 824 except the plug in for the lamp. I have to line it up just right or the lamp won’t work. I have that problem down to a science.
This doesn’t help your issue though.
There is only 1 claw to pull the film through the gate to clear that up.
Hopefully another forum member can come up with a solution for you.
Good luck.

[Ivan Plazacic]

Thank you all for your replies.

Would anyone care to post a photo of the claw, just so I can make sure that the previous owner hasn't broken it? This is my first projector so I'm unsure what it's supposed to look like. I mean, it doesn't look bent or damaged to me, but who knows . . .

[Janice Glesser]

Ivan Plazacic here's a pic of my 824 claw. It's a good thing you asked for this. I discovered mine was full of dust bunnies and had to clean it with some alcohol .😋

[Ivan Plazacic]

Thank you so much for posting this Janice Glesser. Now I know that the pin was in fact broken when I bought it. At least I got it fairly cheaply. All that's left of mine is the brass holder and the pin is snapped off somewhat cleanly. Would anyone know what should be my next step? I looked around for a spare and also some listings "for parts", but it didn't yield much. Is there anyone in the States that still repairs these?

[Janice Glesser]

Oh no! That's a bummer. The 824 is a very desirable projector. It's almost identical in design and functionality to the Eumig 710D...except for the color and the 824 has a convenient motor on-off switch which the 710D doesn't. I don't know if the 824 claw is the same as the 710D. Perhaps an expert here on the forum can chime in to confirm. It might be easier to find a 710D parts machine at a good price and install the claw from that.

[Ken Finch]

Such a shame. Sounds like someone did not rotate that rear inching knob to have that all important red dot at the top before changing the aperture plates and sprockets. Another important point with that series of Eumig is that the black loop forming lever has to be held down when loading the film until the leader appears at the rear of the projector. Just a thought. If you can remove the claw mechanism, a watch repairer may be able to fit a claw pin for you. Lateral thinking!! Ken Finch.😉

[David Strelitz]

Thank you so much for posting this Janice Glesser. Now I know that the pin was in fact broken when I bought it. At least I got it fairly cheaply. All that's left of mine is the brass holder and the pin is snapped off somewhat cleanly. Would anyone know what should be my next step? I looked around for a spare and also some listings "for parts", but it didn't yield much. Is there anyone in the States that still repairs these?

I took two pictures yesterday and then got waylaid with other things. Also like Janice, I couldn't believe the build up of grot.

I'm sure someone can point you in the direction of a Eumig repairer in the US. If you fancy a trip to London, I know just the man and as I said at the start, they have a special tool to remove the broken pin and replace it. I would not attempt to dismantle it. In 30 + years of owning Eumig 8 series (822 & 824) projectors, I broke one pin through stupidity...you only do it once. My Eumig guru, John White http://www.the8mmshedshop.co.uk/ took just a few minutes and sanity was restored but bare in mind he had the right tool, the spare pin and YEARS of experience.
Hopefully someone can point you to a guru nearer home.

With regard to an earlier comment about "two-formatters", the 824 is more than an OK machine, as many here will agree with.

[Ivan Plazacic]

Thank you all for your support!
I really appreciate it.

Does anyone know a good repairer in NYC or anywhere in Pennsylvania? I can't seem to find reliable results online, but I might try to catch Oppenheimer in 70mm soon and maybe try to drop off my projector on the way . . .

[Joseph Banfield]

The shutter mechanism from any of the earlier Eumig sound machine designs that are capable of running both standard 8 and Super 8 (single pin) are all easily interchangeable between the models.

[Ivan Plazacic]

The shutter mechanism from any of the earlier Eumig sound machine designs that are capable of running both standard 8 and Super 8 (single pin) are all easily interchangeable between the models.

Thanks Joseph. I know the 800 series are the same, but does that mean that earlier double gauges are interchangeable too? Also, what about the ones that don't play sound?