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  • Selecting a projector for both formats

    Greetings to all fans of films on film!
    I have a collection of rare amateur films. I want to choose a projector for both formats. It is possible without sound. But films also have a magnetic track.
    Eumig mark 610D was not recommended. Normal8 may jerk and shake. Which projector is better to choose? Eumig 710D? Eumig 712D? Sankyo 1000/1000H/2000H? Will there be a good choice of Bolex 18-3 duo?
    It is important to me that it is easy to replace the lamp, which is easy to buy. Demonstration quality of both formats. For this purpose, the design of the projector must be with sprocket?
    I also want to record screen video on the Sony Nex-5N in 25p. Is a smooth change in speed important for this?
    I will be glad to see your advice!​

  • #2
    Any of the above dual 8 projectors will get the job done regarding projection. If you need sound the 610D is silent only.

    Recording video from a projected image is not going to look too nice. The recorded image is going to look much softer than the actual film and will most probably have flicker...not pretty!

    What you need is both a dual 8 projector to project your films normally and a telecine unit like a Wolverine to record them frame by frame to get higher quality.
    Last edited by Joseph Banfield; September 25, 2023, 08:26 AM.

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    • #3
      If you're looking for a good recommendation, I'd like to suggest a model that is one of my favorites in my collection! May I suggest the Eumig Mark S 709. This machine is a sound projector from the early days that will play both Standard 8 and Super 8. The great thing about this model, is the ability to play silent films with the head block retracted back, and out of the way. In other words when you're not listening to sound films, and the amp is turned to the off position, the heads will not come into play. This is important for reducing wear on the heads, and less friction on your silent films. This model also uses a very well built, and good sounding tube amplifier. Some other features include: semi auto-loading of the film, the ability to remove film during projection, twist-to-focus lenses 32.5 mm sizes, and the ability to add sound to your films.

      The semi auto-loading is a nice system on this model. It's designed to protect your films from jamming, and other issues that tend to plague some full auto-loading projectors. Once you've loaded film a few times on the 709, it becomes second nature when loading film. The other great feature on this machine is the twist-to-focus lenses. This is still the most accurate, and easiest way to focus your films on screen. The twisting action is very precise, and you can dial in a perfect focus every time. The later rotary focus systems aren't as precise, and can be fiddling. There are some exceptions of course, but these are usually the more expensive projectors. The other favorite feature of mine is the ability to remove film during projection. Because the 709 is a semi auto-loading machine the film can be taken out of the film path completely, and safely. This is important should you need to remove your film for whatever reason, or there is a mishap during projection.

      Now what are some negatives! There aren't many, but it's worth noting a few things you may encounter on an older model Eumig. The Eumig system relies on rubber discs to apply the force needed to drive the mechanism, and to transport the film. Over many years these discs can be either worn down, or need some rejuvenation. I've owned several different Eumig models, and all of them required some kind of restoration. The other thing to look out for is worn motor mounts. Eumig used plastic mounts that don't hold up so well after many decades. But there's good news! You can find replacements that have been made, and sold online. They are made from more modern plastics that should last many decades. They are not hard to replace but you do need to know what you're doing to put new ones in. And many of us here can walk you through the process. One last note, for cleaning the rubber discs I simply use a few q tips dipped some alcohol. I follow-up by reconditioning those rubber discs with CRC automotive belt dressing. This conditioner restores the rubber to like new, and this helps to apply the proper traction for forward and reverse. Below is a photo of my 709. I bought this unit online, and was told it was basically new in the box. When the machine arrived, I was excited to see the seller was telling the truth. When I took the back cover off, I could see the rubber discs were like brand new with no wear. I did a basic restoration, and this machine performs like new. It is one of my favorites when running sound films. For silent Super 8 movies my go to is the Eumig Mark S Super machine. Built to the same standards as the 709. Below is a photo of my 709. Hope this information helps and good luck! Other's here will chime in with recommendations. You have come to the right place, with good people who will help you out!

      Click image for larger version

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      • #4
        Shane, I love it!!! A Eumig Mark S 709 with a built-in fruit basket...ingenious!

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        • #5
          I want to make a video from the screen on a Sony camera to navigate the content of these films. For my project and editing, I will scan them in 2K on a Muller HM scanner.
          Eumig S709 has a sprocket? Is this the best of the 700 series?​

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Vitali Vadim View Post
            I want to make a video from the screen on a Sony camera to navigate the content of these films. For my project and editing, I will scan them in 2K on a Muller HM scanner.
            Eumig S709 has a sprocket? Is this the best of the 700 series?​
            Yes the 709 is sprocket driven, there are two! Refer to the photo above. You will see the top sprocket at the loading mechanism, and one large sprocket in the rear. In my honest opinion I would say the 709 is the best in the 700 series, because it is a dual gauge projector. The 709 has separate gates for each format. This provides an extra level of protection for your films. I shoot a lot of Super 8 as home movies, and project them regularly. Of course those are silent, so my go to projector for watching them is the Eumig Mark S Super 8 only machine. It is a sound machine, but I have it set up for silent instead. which just basically means I am watching them with the amp turned off. Great machine and gentle on film just like the 709.

            Can I ask you this, what's your reason for wanting to record your films to digital? I only ask because it might just be easier, and more enjoyable to just watch these films on a projector from time to time. Digital copies are OK if you are trying to share these with family, and friends. But, those copies will never look as good as the camera originals. Plus film is fun to watch on a projector! Just my thoughts!

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            • #7
              Well, like Shane said, the early series 700 machines have some nice advantages. Yes, the 709 is a double sprocket machine and that era of machine has some good lenses available too, which are not plastic and use screw type focusing instead of the sloppy focusing that was used on later models. If you need it for sound films the vacuum tube amps do not hum like they do in the later Eumig transistorized amps. But the only Eumig dual 8 sound projector that uses vacuum tubes is the 709. There were other vacuum tube models made by Eumig but the rest are dedicated to a single format only (standard 8mm or Super 8). The disadvantage is that those vacuum tube models are VERY heavy indeed. I have yet to find a Eumig vacuum tube model that is not working because they used great capacitors that still are not leaking and within their specs after 59 years (their first sound projector was manufactured in 1964 for standard 8mm). I have three vacuum tube models, two Mark S for standard 8 and one Mark S 701 for Super 8 and they all work flawlessly and are used frequently!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Joseph Banfield View Post
                Shane, I love it!!! A Eumig Mark S 709 with a built-in fruit basket...ingenious!
                LOL, I knew you'd enjoy that Joseph.....

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                • #9
                  The Eumig fruit basket attachment is now something I'm going to be definately looking for!

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                  • #10
                    What I don't like about sound projectors is the lack of slow speeds. I also don't like the lack of 16 fps.
                    These are not my personal films. My girlfriend
                    and I will watch them on the projector, it’s interesting to us. Then I want to do an art project, edit together small films from different films and show them in an art gallery through a video projector.​

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vitali Vadim View Post
                      What I don't like about sound projectors is the lack of slow speeds. I also don't like the lack of 16 fps.
                      These are not my personal films. My girlfriend
                      and I will watch them on the projector, it’s interesting to us. Then I want to do an art project, edit together small films from different films and show them in an art gallery through a video projector.​
                      Oh OK that makes a lot of sense now! Yeah digitizing films for that purpose will work well! The early Eumig's are set up for 18 and 24 fps. Although, I think there might be a way to slow the projectors down a bit, so you can play films at 16 fps. However, I forget what the procedure is for doing this. It may have something to do with changing the cycle switch or lever in the back of the machine. Although, I may be completely wrong here.

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                      • #12
                        Vitali, it's hard to say if any one projector is the best because they all seem to have advantages and disadvantages. There does not seem to be any one specific projector that hits every bell and whistle for everyone. Myself, like Shane, have a preference for the vacuum tube models but we both use them in very different ways. He shoots film and uses his projector to watch mostly those. While I, on the other hand never shoot film but watch and collect exclusively commercial releases. Shane looks for a smooth performanance from his home movies with the occasional commercial release and needs sound too to accomplish that. The real beauty of the Eumig vacuum tube projectors is that if you are not watching a sound film the sound heads and pinch roller are locked out of the way so they never contact the film nor is any wear placed on the soundheads. And it's all automatic too and controlled by the on/off volume control. In other words if you do not need sound the Eumig vacuum tube projectors reconfigure themselves automatically and completely as a true silent projector with no sound elements of any kind in the film path, which NO transistorized models can do!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joseph Banfield View Post
                          Vitali, it's hard to say if any one projector is the best because they all seem to have advantages and disadvantages. There does not seem to be any one specific projector that hits every bell and whistle for everyone. Myself, like Shane, have a preference for the vacuum tube models but we both use them in very different ways. He shoots film and uses his projector to watch mostly those. While I, on the other hand never shoot film but watch and collect exclusively commercial releases. Shane looks for a smooth performanance from his home movies with the occasional commercial release and needs sound too to accomplish that. The real beauty of the Eumig vacuum tube projectors is that if you are not watching a sound film the sound heads and pinch roller are locked out of the way so they never contact the film nor is any wear placed on the soundheads. And it's all automatic too and controlled by the on/off volume control. In other words if you do not need sound the Eumig vacuum tube projectors reconfigure themselves automatically and completely as a true silent projector with no sound elements of any kind in the film path, which NO transistorized models can do!
                          Well said Joseph! And your right the early Eumig's work well for those Super 8 films I shoot, then project. But, as you mentioned, they come in handy when I decide to watch one of my commercial prints. That kind of machine checks all the boxes for me! Easy on film, whether it's a silent home movie, or a nice print with booming sound! Also depending on my mood, I have a choice of using several high quality Eumig lenses. The standard 32.5 mm size makes it easy to find good standard lenses. Currently my two favorites are the Eumig Euprolux 1.1 prime, and the outstanding Eumig Suprovar F 1.0 zoom lens. Both lenses provide a nice sharp projected images on screen! If you refer back to the photo I posted here of the 709, that is the Eumig Suprovar I am referring too. It was one of the most expensive lenses Eumig ever created in the mid 60's. It also weights quite a bit and is all metal.

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                          • #14
                            Yes, I'm also ready to shoot a private movie with my girlfriend.)) There is a Canon 814XL-S. Kodak Vision3 50D is waiting in the refrigerator. But this film will never end up in a projector. Only high quality scanner!

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                            • #15
                              Anybody already mentioned Sankyo yet?

                              A little decent machine that's so simple to use, and virtually maintenance-free. It also uses pretty standard EFP 12v 100w lamp - available everywhere at reasonable price. If you can find one with new belt replaced that's going to serve you well for years to come.

                              TBH I'm a bit biased to Japanese made machine, as that's what dominated the local market here back then.

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