What makes these 2 Star Wars different?

[Lee Hardcastle]

Hey, so I followed a couple of auctions for A New Hope (scope) and they went for marginally different prices.
I am curious what the reason for that is?

"STAR WARS A NEW HOPE Super 8 Stereo Sound Feature SCOPE Derann Great stereo sound. Agfa polyester filmstock."
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355055004452
£1,022.58

STAR WARS Super 8mm STEREO SOUND SCOPE 6 X 400ft reels This is the FULL FEATURE films of Star Wars A New Hope and a little bit unique. This film print has has Stereo sound which was recorded from a original 35mm film print in Dorun Films dubbing studio. Just a little bit special and a one off!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276021758866
£609.00

[Brian Fretwell]

I would image the main difference is that the Derann one would have had the sound recorded on the Magantec machine at 2 or 4 times the playback speed and the second recorded on a projector at the same speed. Both would sound the correct speed on playback, but the second may sound a lot better. Also the extraction of the sound from the master print may be done better.

[John Armer]

I suspect that the Derann name gave rise to the higher price of the former, although the latter is of higher print quality and is in the correct aspect ratio (the Derann prints are missing image at the top and the bottom). I think the Derann print came from a pre 1981 print where the latter, titled 'New Hope', is from a later, post 1981 release (though before the 1997 special edition).

[John Taylor]

I read elsewhere that the 6 x 400ft version was bought for 609 and then the buyer listed it again using the same screenshots (plus additional shots of a car for some reason) and sold it for double the money practically the day he recieved it. The buyer is a collector on here and well know projectionist at the conventions. Was this a genuine release? Never heard of, or seen a release on 6 x 400ft reels, I thought the star Wars feature was derann only as they had the rights to release it. Forgive me if I am incorrect. 've searched the internet and this one is the only one i can find on the smaller spools.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256231382841

I think anyone who has any full feature of Star Wars be it Derann or other, feature or cut down is very lucky. I'd love a print but it is way out of my affordability.

[Tony Kelly]

Lee and john it was me who purchased the print off the guy who had pictures of a broken down car ha ha, he bought it as you said for £609 and re listed it due to his car breaking down and needed the money asap, it was up for £1200 or make an offer, and i got it for £900 which is a bargain, the print is exellent i viewed first reel so far. and the stereo sound is best ive heard on my projector and through a soundbar.
Been after it for a while, does anyone know who Kempski is? the seller wasnt sure if my print was reel image or kempski, seeing as i asked for a copy earlier thisyear from reel image steve told me it will be in mono, so that rules out it being a reel image print and must be kempski?

[Ken Souza]

Hello Tony and all,

You mention the stereo vs mono prints of SW that the Reel Image told you about. To shed some light on the stereo/mono prints, the older prints Reel Image or Derann were stripped with 2 magnetic stripes, the main strip and the balance strip so those prints were recorded stereo. I have a stereo print and indeed the sound is excellent. Especially running it through a good sound system.

The newer prints are only being striped with the main magnetic strip and not the balance strip so they can only be recorded in mono. I hear the mono prints sound excellent. For the price of this title I would only want it in stereo.

You mention the name of Kempski. I wsh I could help you out with that information. I have never heard of that person or company. Hope the information was helpful.

Ken

[Rob Young]

The Derann print was first released in 1989 and was from the negative Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. It was on Kodak pre-stripe and available with a mono or stereo track (mono copies were about £30.00 cheaper but could be returned and re-recorded into stereo later if so wished).

First print runs were printed wet gate at that time (standard practice), so that many of the negative marks (of which there were plenty apparently) were "hidden" by this process. Some later print runs were printed dry gate (which again, became standard practice by the lab) and do suffer from obvious negative wear.

The Derann prints are indeed printed full width of the super 8 frame, which means that the top and bottom of the original image is cropped. It isn't too much of an issue, but headroom on some shots looks rather tight! The subtitles on the Greedo scene are also missing; not cropped but missing from the negative used, as different negatives had different language subtitles and this negative hadn't had them added at all for whatever reason. The prints are great, but they are rather grainy.

Kempski were a company in the 1980's that produced super 8 'scope prints (Poltergeist, 2010, etc). They went out of business mid to late 80's and Derann took over printing their negatives. Star Wars was never one of Kempski's releases, so the other version is not related to Kempski.

The seller may be confusing Kempski with "Cineavison" (??), a company that specialized in producing super 8 'scope prints in the correct 2.35:1 ratio, but presenting the scope image with black bars either side, thus maintaining the complete theatrical framing. Osi has a full length print of Star Wars made like this, although I understand that this is an older release and Cineavsion only officially released the Ken 400ft part 2 in this format.

My guess (others more informed please step in here!) is that the second print was perhaps the one that was produced 2 or 3 years ago. Could anyone advise as to whether this made using a digital source (perhaps the Star Wars 4K77 project ???) or a 35mm print? At that time, prints were still available with main and balance stripe and the fact that it may have originally been sold as a mono print wouldn't stop someone from re-recording it in stereo. In fact a company here in the UK comes to mind...EDIT: sorry, yes Dorun is mentioned! In fact I feel Dorun could shed more light on this version...

Hope others can add to this...

[Osi Osgood]

Rob is correct, I own an actual 6X400ft Cineavision print of Star Wars. It was printed from the original 1977 version of the film, but the actual visual differences are limited to subtitles and the opening scroll. However, I never rerecord, as, the audio mix, though mono, has some very different dialogue differences only found in the 1977 version of the soundtrack. The only downside to this print, is that reel 2 is printed slightly too
bright, and there is a little negative wear to the beginning and ending of reels. However, I love the fact that I am one of those very few that can actually see this monumental film as I actually saw it at 11 years old. Oh, and thank goodness, it was printed on LPP, so this print had to be printed as of 1982 or later, but honestly, I think that this print was an "under the table" feature on super 8.

[John Taylor]

The one on ebay i think may be a recent copy from a digital source as it also has the bfcc certificate. Also the white spools and dorun films label is another clue?possibly?
Id be surprised if anyone would admit to it being a copy from digital or any other fotmat due to copyright infigement.

[Rob Young]

Agreed.

[Tony Kelly]

ohh all very interesting, im guessing my copy the 6 x 400 footer which is now on a supaspool edited together must be the cineavison one>#?
i hope not the digital printed one? is there a way to know this? i would prefer it wasnt of course, i havent actually watched the whole film yet so will update when i do later this week ill try to take photos so you guys can perhaps tell me if its digital.

[Douglas Meltzer]

Tony,

Beautiful prints have been made from negatives that are digitally sourced, however the cost of an entire feature would be quite expensive, I would say more than you ended up paying. The big question here is are you happy with what you have? You wrote earlier that the print is excellent and the stereo sound is the best you've heard on your projector. If you're still concerned, send a question to the seller. If not, enjoy what you have.

[Tony Kelly]

Hey Douglas totally agree with everything you said, sound and picture are very good,im not really concerned but after what you said about costs it makes sense, im looking forward to watching the whole film this week, i watched reel 1 before splicing all reels together, it is one of my favourite films on super 8mm and finally got a great deal with the seller.

[Rob Young]

I'd have to second what Doug has said. Enjoy your print Tony!

[John Taylor]

If it looks and sounds good, thats all that matters.