IDEA: convert Eumig 709 to full manual thread.

[Todd Kitchen]

Is it possible? I have a junker that I can start playing with....

Not necessarily that the auto-thread on this particular machine is unreliable, but that auto-thread in general sucks. I would much rather lace up the film manually, then use the inching to test that it's all locked in, then start the motor. As I've said before, 99% of film damage with Super 8 is due to auto-thread. I've definitely seen it on every projector I've ever owned. Usually it's just the leader that gets damaged, but why damage leader at all?

Since this particular machine is already 50% manual, I'm wondering how hard this conversion would be. Would it compromise other aspects of the film path?

The little locking levers for each sprocket would not have to be removed. So I'm going to see how hard it is to remove the plastic guides that push the film down into the pressure plate path.


The hard part would be getting the film thru the pressure plate assembly, since Eumigs don't have a pressure plate/lens assembly that swing outwards for super easy access.

I see this type of modification similar to the Pro8mm Beaulieu 4008 restomods, where all the auto zoom and auto exposure motors are removed. It's much cleaner and more professional.

I'll start experimenting tonight on my "parts only" Eumig 709.

[Joseph Banfield]

You could in theory do it but why? Would it not be easier to just get a splicer and some new leader and resolve your autoloading problem once and for all with the 709. I've ran hundreds upon hundreds of films through those vintage Eumigs with that same highly reliable semi-autoloading system and they never ever misload...not ever unless there is bad shrunken leader! Anytime I 've had autoloading issues it was always a used film that I bought that had old nasty shrunken white leader attached to it A quick change of the leader and that was the end of it everytime! There is just simply nothing wrong with the simple semi-autoloading system of the early Eumigs...what is a shame is that it did not continue because it was the only perfect autoloading system Eumig ever invented that never failed, nor cared how a film was cut, whether it was cut square, at an angle or any other shape...it just feeds first time every time!

And if you do mess with the autoloading system on a 709 and try to convert it to manual you will always have to remove your front gate to load film while your rear gate is flopping around loosley because of the front gate not in place. Also if you remove the upper loop former you will also loose your loop restorer function if you hit a bad slice or sprocket damage in your film.

Have fun playing though but you probably won't be happy with the end results and the projector will of course be ruined!

[Todd Kitchen]

yeah after looking at how the autoload grey plastic thing is held in place by the top sprocket, it appears that this may not be possible. I thought the loop restorer was separate but it's all the same assembly.

I really wish super 8 manufacturers had adopted the compromise between manual and auto--the slot load system. I had a projectionist job where we used Eiki slotloaders (connected via changeover) and threading was super easy. put the film in a slot attach it to the takeup reel, roll some film thru, then turn a lever to lock the sprockets into the perfs. . Brilliant.

[Brian Fretwell]

I don't think, at first with dual gauge machines at least, that people could be trusted to alter the loop length before the sound head between guages and would complain of films having out of sync sound.

[Todd Kitchen]

interestingly enough, that's possible already with the Eumig 709, since it only auto-forms the top loop. It requires the end user to more or less manually set the lower loop size. I projected some Super 8 sound with too big a loop and the footage was out of sync until fixed it.

[Joseph Banfield]

But with the 709 there is a huge advantage to forming the bottom loop manually. A little know fact with Super 8 sound film is a problem know as "film chatter" in the sound output because of the too short picture to sound seperation of 18 frames. But with the 709 you can add a frame or two of extra bottom loop to eliminate that nasty problem completely without lip sync problems..can't do that trick with fully autoloading projectors! Only Super 8 projectors with a pinch roller in front of the sound heads are immune to that problem like the GS 1200 for example.

[Todd Kitchen]

you are exactly correct. When I was first learning this projector I had chattering super 8 at one point due to the loop not being correct. I've also heard that sound on other projectors thru the years. Sometimes even when I was a 16mm projectionist we'd get this and if so, then that unit was immediately taken out of production and sent to the onsite tech who knew how to fix them. Eiki super slot loaders; we never really messed with loops. But we did have to hit changeovers accurately.

[Shane C. Collins]

I agree with Joseph here! The 709, and all early Eumig's have a superior loading system for a consumer machine. Old shrunken leader will cause all kinds of issues as you've discovered. I only had one film ever cause an issue with my 709 and guess what, it was an old shrunken leader from a Standard 8 film. All my current Super 8 movies load perfectly every time. All have a leader that is brand new, and cut like the diagram I showed you in another thread. Todd did you get the speed issue figured out? The 709 is one of the best dual gauge machines ever made! It is by far my favorite of all the machines I have owned over the years, and I've had many! It's nice to have a projector that can show both sound, and silent films, with the added bonus of either Standard or Super 8. I think once you've used the 709 long enough, you will like it more, or at least I hope you will....

[Todd Kitchen]

I've got 50 feet of fresh leader on the way!!