Best setup to RECORD a soundtrack on a Magnetic Stripe?

[Philip Hamilton]

I am interested in HOW BEST TO RECORD sound onto a Super 8mm film with a Magnetic Stripe. This would be of course with a Super 8 Projector capable of recording sound while projecting. I have an Elmo ST 180 M and a Sankyo both capable of recording sound.

My question is this - and by the way I have no interest in doing this as a service - I just want to know how it is done.

I have a computer with a 1/8” stereo out jack and from there I can play the sound file I want to record onto the film stripe. The projector of course has inputs built in - you can plug a microphone in but that is not what I want to do. I want to plug the sound directly into the projector but I am pretty sure that will not work the components I have.

I am guessing there needs to be some type of amplification on the audio before it goes into the projector.

I would appreciate any and all feedback on how to make this happen so that strong sound is recorded onto the magnetic track. Thanks!!!

[Ed Gordon]

You need to the "line in" jack, not the microphone jack. The manual for your projector should have instructions.

[Thomas Knappstein]

The best Set up to record on magnetic Stripe is the Goko RM 8008 Stereo Viewer.

[Lee Mannering]

Hi. I used a Sankyo 800 and 702 for most of my family home movies and they lay down strong sound levels.

Tip 2. Make sure the magnetic stripe is in good order and not worn/flattened.
Tip 3. Clean your magnetic sound heads before you start and invest in some good quality cables. Also clean your pinch rollers it will reduce wow.
Tip 4. You will be using a line feed I am guessing from your sound source from analogue or perhaps CD? Digital levels can be very lively so you will need to monitor them closely using some good head phones. Invest in some industry standard Sony MDR-7506 cans which I've been using for some time. Price is around £100, any lower probably a cheap copy. Ebay is rife with them.
Tip 5. Once you have connected your sound source to the Aux in socket on your projector do some test recordings on a short film and listen to the results back to optimise levels to your own ear.
Tip 6. Read your projector manual as it will tell you how to record sound on that model of projector.
Tip 7. Once dubbing is completed I listen to the final dub thru a pair of Neumann KH 120A Studio monitors around £1,000. These I use for my media work as well, they are active so you bypass the main vintage projector amp.

Sound is a very personal experience so its very much about what you personally want to hear.
I peak my levels around +1 or +2 which give a little distortion at the top power end, but you wont notice it at least not here.

You'll be wanting to hear good quality playback so invest in some modern loud speakers. I'm still using my Eumig 2 way stereo speakers which recently enjoyed some 21st century new speaker cable and gold end plugs to avoid oxidisation. I also changed the sockets on the Elmo and Eumig. The German pure copper stereo cable made a huge difference over the old Eumig 80's leads. Progress..

During the recording process keep a note book on your levels, it will help you in the future and make fun reading in future years.

I started 8mm dubbing in the early 1970's and it has been a REELLY fun part of my 8mm film journey.
Good luck!

[Douglas Meltzer]

Excellent information from Lee. 50 years of 8mm recording experience!

In the past, when I've re-recorded prints or added sound to silent prints that I'd striped, I would burn a DVD of the edited file (picture & sound) and output from the DVD player into the 3.5mm (1/8") AUX inputs on the GS-1200. I now just output directly from my laptop's headphone jack. I use a cable with a stereo 3.5mm male plug for the computer, and that splits into two left/right RCA males. I then use 2 RCA female to 3.5mm mono male adapters to connect to the aux inputs.

The laptop's output volume is set at 70-75%. I try to keep the GS's recording level at a similar setting or less to avoid system noise. You might find that the laptop's output may need a little boost. For my Mac, I use a great little free app named "eqMac". This allows you to boost the output cleanly to your preferred levels.

[Joerg Polzfusz]

You can directly connect your PC and projector. You’ll only need a matching cable (maybe something like a 3.5mm stereo jack to 5pin DIN plug).

Your projectors might have 1-3 „sound in“ connectors.
When available, use a „line in“/„aux in“/„tape in“. (At this connector, the projector mainly relies on the PC doing the amplification, which is the preferred way.)
When you only have a „mic in“, then you can also use this. But in this case, the projector also tries to amplify the sound. So start with a very, very low volume on your computer‘s side. Otherwise it might damage the projector‘s amplifier.
When your projector also has a „phono in“/„lp in“, then simply don’t use it. It’s only designed for direct connection to a vinyl record player that hasn’t got any integrated amplifier. However, amplifying LPs isn’t straight forward. And it’s too difficult to emulate the output of a record player with your PC.

Some projectors feature a „control head“ where you can listen to sound you have just recorded 3-4 frames ago. Use it to check the volume.

[Philip Hamilton]

Thanks everyone -- very helpful. I would not think the sound directly out of my PC would be strong enough. I have heard others attempts at this and the results were not good - very low volume sound. This was recorded on a GS1200 so I am not sure why the sound was so bad. I have always thought you need a good amplifier or similar to boost sound out of the PC to ensure you get clean sound into your projector. I never thought it was rocket science and nothing described here seems all that complicated.

I really want to give this a try at some point.

When I first started out in 8mm in 1970 I was 13 years old! - I had a 3 inch reel to reel that we recorded soundtracks for my silent castle films and then played them back and it was a hoot - so much fun back then doing this. We even recorded a music video type soundtrack for TERROR OF DRACULA that elusive Nosferatu title sold out f the back of Famous Monsters. Timing that was a real challenges but always funny. I would give a lot to have those 3 inch reels back and listen to what I recorded back when I was 13-14.

Thanks again. Appreciate it.

[Ed Gordon]

When I first started out in 8mm in 1970 I was 13 years old! - I had a 3 inch reel to reel that we recorded soundtracks for my silent castle films and then played them back and it was a hoot - so much fun back then doing this. We even recorded a music video type soundtrack for TERROR OF DRACULA that elusive Nosferatu title sold out f the back of Famous Monsters. Timing that was a real challenges but always funny. I would give a lot to have those 3 inch reels back and listen to what I recorded back when I was 13-14.

I picked up an old 8mm projector that used an external cassette player for audio. The cabling for the connection of the player and projector was missing unfortunately. That was probably about 10 years ago. You could pick up old projectors for less than the cost of a new projection lamp back then. 😁

[Douglas Meltzer]

Philip,

With my old method, the output from the DVD player was line level so yes, there was a strong signal. The output from the laptop's headphone jack is mic level, obviously lower. After doing a number of tests, including going through an amp, I found that using the laptop with the eqMac app boost would give as strong and as clean a signal as the line level output, with the benefit of using fewer cables. I should have mentioned earlier that I normally loop the laptop's output through the sync box into the GS. This allows the 1000 Hz start beep that I've place in the audio file to trigger the paused projector to begin recording.

[Philip Hamilton]

Doug thanks that sounds pretty simple to setup. I have a PC (not a laptop) so I will need run some tests on how powerful the sound is. I suppose that if you monitor with Headphones plugged into the projector you would be able to hear how strong the sound is or not.

Presuming it is - then the only issue would be threading the projector so the film is in the aperture at the same spot you will place the 1000hz start beep in your audio file. (Presuming of course your projector recognizes ESS). Have you had any issues with that?

Like the old AMERICOM films - "Start film at beep". haha! Thanks again.

[Osi Osgood]

"Meep Meep"! Roadrunners are capable of syncing a soundtrack ...... Yeah, I know, silly and not too helpful.

[Rob Young]

Just to add to Thomas's comment about using a Goko RM 8008 stereo editor, I have used my mono Goko RM 5000 for re-recording many super 8 trailers.

Sync is, shall we say, fiddly, as there is no pulse sync feature on the RM 5000, but with patience, trial and error, you can start a DVD and the film in sync together and with some prior testing and re-testing with the Goko speed control, the film stays in sync for the 2 or 3 minutes required.

Having a small monitor next to the Goko screen, with output from the DVD player is vital, as you can see scene changes either match perfectly or...drift out of sync, in which case you adjust the Goko speed minutely accordingly and try again. Other than that, its just a phono to 3.5mm jack cable from player to Goko, and some adjusting of the recording level.

I've managed 8 minute shorts using this method with perfect sync.

The advantage is that the quality of recording form the Goko is exceptional; full fidelity on both my Elmo and Beaulieu projectors. Also, there is no audible wow on the recordings, a problem that I've often encountered on re-recordings made with projectors. And there is very little stress on the film itself, no matter how many times you need to re-run it.

Line level from a DVD player is great, but I've also used the headphone output from my Apple MacBook, set to near full volume and fed into the Aux of the Goko. I had no problem getting a good, strong recording.

This method is also very useful for replacing any small sections of bad audio on a print, as you can blend in the re-record with original track and as long as the levels match, you cannot tell it has been re-recorded. I did this recently of a print of "The Day of the Triffids", which had dialogue jumps thanks to splices in the original master material. Again, for this task, any wear on the print due to rock and rolling the film back and forth is not a concern.

[Philip Hamilton]

Doug can u please elaborate on the pulse sync and the incorporation of a Renzo box into the mix? Thanks in advance !

[Douglas Meltzer]

Philip,

Using the “Pedro” sync unit P1008-GS to make sure the GS-1200 runs at 23.976 fps (Renzo’s excellent device also works beautifully), I record a digital file of the soon to be re-recorded print by filming it off the screen with a camera also set to 23.97. I then import that file into Premiere Pro and match up the audio from the ripped Blu-ray/DVD. Before exporting, I place that 1000 Hz beep so that it corresponds to either a number in the leader’s countdown or a sync mark that I’ve made using a hole punch. The important part here is to make sure that there’s enough footage following that mark to allow the projector to come up to speed for the recording. Sometimes I will add additional leader and place the mark on that to be safe.

After connecting the cables from the laptop’s headphone jack to loop through the sync box then into the GS’s aux inputs, I thread the GS and use the still button in combination with the FWD/REV buttons to get the frame with the sync mark in the gate. Making sure the P1008 is set to “auto” (as opposed to “run”) I put the projector into record mode. The sync mark is still in the gate. I start playing back the file on the laptop. The beep triggers the sync box to go into “run” mode and this starts the projector recording.

If you’ll be using the Renzo box, the audio goes directly from the laptop into the GS. You place the sync frame in the projector gate, then with the ESS pulse setting on the Renzo box set to off, place the projector in record mode. It will not start since the ESS on the box is off. Then play your edited file and when you get to that sync frame, manually switch the box's ESS setting to on. The projector will start recording and your sync should be very close. You can adjust it if necessary by using the GS's fast/slow controls in the rear.

Note: As Lee said, you should start with headphones plugged into the rear of the GS. The audio output during recording can be very loud....

[Douglas Meltzer]

Thomas & Rob,

I did a test years ago comparing the Goko 8008's recording capabilities to a Bauer 610 and the GS 1200. The Goko's audio quality was noticeably superior to the projectors. I re-recorded my print of Terminator 2 on the Goko and it sounds amazing, however as Rob pointed out, the longest time it held sync was 3 minutes. That project took a while.