My real-time telecine project

[Stan Jelavic]

Here is my input Fred since I got the system identical to yours working pretty good - good for me anyways.
I assume you checked this discussion:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...sample-footage
My system description is here:
https://github.com/vintagefilmograph...o_with_hnc-hs9
There is lots of good info in both of these links.
Now let's look at your questions:

I intend to capture directly to computer using the HDMI port on the camera.
Yes that will work. There is a discussion on this topic using OBS studio. Let me know if you cannot find it here in the forum.

So the initial test had a ton of flickering.
Set your camcoder for 30FPS and crank up your projector speed. Should get almost zero flicker. Other people may have advice here.

If I were to speed it up in software, how do I know when it's moving at the speed it was recorded?

The FPS setting is always very confusing. The playback FPS is a number that is stored in the video stream and the player uses that. That number is available in VirtualDub undder file-> info. In VirtuaDub you can export the video as individual images and then you know how long the video is. Divide the number of images by the duration in seconds and you get the FPS. That is if you do not trust the number that VirtualDub is giving you. By the way that is also a good way to export the VirtualDub video into Resolve (which I use). Then just change the FPS to 18 or 24 for sound or whatever you want. And BTW, VirtualDub does not interpolate or drop the images to generate the new FPS. Just changes that magic number in the video and the players now know how many images to play per second. People usually get that wrong (including me sometimes).

If I were to speed it up in software, how do I know when it's moving at the speed it was recorded?

I used 30FPS and changed it in VirtuaDub to 18. No flicker.

2nd question is what software are you using to capture and edit?
I use Virtual Dub. Sometimes save in lossless Lagarith codec. Sometimes export images into Resolve and tweak the video there.

ability to include multiple reels in 1 video

VirtualDub does that. Use File->Append

add music under the video

OBS studio can add music track from HDMI I believe (never used it though). I switched to RPI global shutter camera recently.

Virtual Dub produces and won't capture lossles

Use image export into Resolve.

[Fred Hess]

Thanks, Stan. Appreciate the insights. Next step will be the software. Lots of options to choose from.

I was working with the camera trying to figure out how to change the frame rate. I can't find a way to change to 30fps. Can you explain how that's done?

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

The only way to get flickerless transfer that I can think of for your setup, is to make absolutely sure that the camcorder's shutter speed is FIXED and won't be tampered with by its own program auto function. In other words keep EVERY SETTINGS of the camcorder in MANUAL MODE - focus, iris, white balance, shutter speed, etc. - all of it.

I believe the frame rate of your camcorder is either 29.97 or 59.94 fps, so set the shutter speed at 1/60 second. Start the projector at lowest speed - you'll see a ton of banding that keeps rollind down the screen. Then gradually increasing the speed until it slows down to a stall. The projector should run at close to 20 fps by now. At this point the banding should be almost unnoticeable.
However it might be not possible to completely get rid of banding since we're not living in a "perfect world" - the actual speed of the projector can (and will) fluctuate & drift away from the optimal point. You'll have to babysit it throughout the process anyway.

[Fred Hess]

Thanks, Nantawat. I played around with capturing today using your tips and believe I now have a suitable setup. No banding that I can see and almost no flicker (at least it isn't noticeable to me). Appreciate your help.

I have another question about the capturing process. Stan, since you are using Virtual Dub, perhaps you can chime in.
I'm wondering if you capture in VDub and then immediately load that file into your NLE (DaVinci Resolve) for all the editing or do you do some editing (flip, crop, change speed, trim etc.) in VDub first? I'm assuming that Resolve will do all these things but just wondering about your workflow. Also, does Resolve render to MP4? I mostly do VHS/camcorder tape transfers so I'm used to using Hand Brake or Hybrid. Can I do everything from AVI to MP4 in Resolve? I'm thinking I will download it tomorrow and start playing, but curious about what does and doesn't work with film.

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Fred,
I did not have much issue with flicker with the Panasonic setup. Once set it ran OK throughout the clip.
My workflow with the Panasonic camera (what I remember):
- Copy the file from the sd card to the PC
- export into Resolve
- edit there - this is a very powerful tool. You can find tons of help in Y-tube.
- export mp4
Hope this helps.
BTW, This camcoder uses 3-CCD global shutter
With global shutter the banding is not present. With projector 3 blade shutter and camera global shutter, the brightness could fluctuate from frame to frame but no banding. The brightness fluctuation is caused by short exposure and can be fixed by turning the aperture down. I had no issues with that. Steady throughout the clip.

[Fred Hess]

Hi Stan,
Downloaded DaVinci Resolve. WOW! Within 30 minutes got the video flipped, cropped, trimmed, added some transitions, adjusted playback speed, resized and exported to MP4. The software is very easy to use and quite intuitive. And you're right, quite powerful. Later I'll figure out how to add my own music tracks and play with color correction. I'm sure there are other things I'll discover along the way to improve the quality.
Once your lens mount arrives I'll experiment with the aperture setting and work on fine tuning the focus. Shouldn't be too long before I can post some comparison videos for you to comment on.
Can't thank you enough for all your (and other's) help. You've helped move my "dream" into a very viable process for transferring film with great results. Your knowledge and experience and willingness to help have been invaluable. You made the journey not only a learning experience but tons of fun. Still more learning to do, but I'm off to a solid start. Thank you!!!!

[Stan Jelavic]

You are very welcome Fred. We all here try to pitch in and help. Glad you are off to a very good start.

[Fred Hess]

Here are a couple comparison pics and videos between my Tobin system and my home-made system. As the pictures show, I have a ways to go before my own system matches the color and focus that I get with the Tobin, but the Tobin produces much more jitter than my new system. A definite conundrum!

Cake 1 is the Tobin. Cake 2 is my system. Test Video 1 is the Tobin. Test Video 2 is my system.

I will continue to play with my system videos in Davinci Resolve and see if I can't get the color to match the Tobin (mine seems to have a lot of yellow), and also work on fine tuning the focus.

This particular reel (R8) is in pretty bad shape with plenty of jitter, but as you can see it's not as bad with my system.

I think I'm off to a pretty good start with my new system. Would ultimately like to achieve the same results on both systems, minus the jitter. Any comments or direction is appreciated, especially concerning improving color with Resolve. Thanks.

[Alwyn Adkins]

Fred, if you're into spending some money on software, here's what Mercalli (stabilising) and Neat Video (noise reduction) can do. Mercalli is a standalone program but Neat Video is available as a plugin for many NLEs, including Resolve. I use it in Magix. Indispensible for this sort of video. Here, I've got the Neat Dust and Scratches removal up at maximum.

Mercalli choked on the candle sticks, so that section might have to be tackled as a separate file then re-inserted.

Google Drive link 20MB (forum size limit unknown):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k20...ew?usp=sharing

[Fred Hess]

Thanks Alwyn. That is some pretty impressive results. I'm now off to the software store!! My little project just got a bit more expensive, but since I'm planning on charging for the service (once I'm all setup and better versed on the procedure), I'm sure it will be worth it. Especially if I can achieve results like your example. Appreciate your help!

[Stan Jelavic]

Nice work Alwyn. I ran Fred's video through resolve white balance and stabilizer and crop.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18Ug...ew?usp=sharing
One note, I just found out with one of thee transfer jobs that I did for my customer that for old
magenta shifted movies the halogen lamp does a better job that the led. My thinking is that the halogen lamp spectrum is
lower in the magenta region and the transfer turns out better and easier to restore the colors. I actually used a direct projection on a piece of
white paper with surprisingly good results. I was never a proponent of front or rear projection but this was a pleasant surprise.
Did not try to run with the halogen lamp directly into the camera but have several low power lamps an will try it (5 to 20 W).
Kim also may have comments in here on how to fix the magenta shifted video. He did an excellent job on one of the 16mm clips...

[Robert Held]

Mercalli did a very nice job! Cool.

Another option is Topaz Video AI, which also has to be purchased. It could obviously be refined, but here's a quick enhance and medium stabilization of Test Video 2 in Topaz, with some color correction in Kdenlive (freeware video editor): https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KbD...ew?usp=sharing

[Stan Jelavic]

That is pretty impressive Robert. Will add these tools to my list. Here is the front projection to white screen compared against the direct to camera capture.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PAr...ew?usp=sharing

[Alwyn Adkins]

Stan, the direct projection has quite a lot more real estate. Could you post that video so we can have a play with the colour?

[Robert Held]

Stan,

Wow, that's quite a bit different. Very interesting. I've also struggled with color reproduction from LED light sources. The halogen lights definitely create a different look. And it's not just the light, but also the diffuser material. After much experimentation, I use a 4000K light and attenuate/diffuse it with 1/4" thick white Delrin which gives a pretty neutral result. Then it usually just requires a quick white balance to the sprocket hole to look good. Even so, for films I really care about, I still still project to white foam board and record the video with a DSLR to double check the colors. Sometimes they need tweaking.