Dual 8 sound projector with rock solid speed for digitization of audio?

[David Navratil]

I'm looking for something to accompany my planned scanning rig for digitizing audio. The scanning will be done at a very slow speed and in order for the audio to stay in sync with the video I'll need some projector that can keep the speed dead-on throughout the entire reel.

Ideally it can play Super 8 and Normal 8, both stereo magnetic and ideally also the rare optical audio.

Since I'm kind of a newbie in terms of film tech, what am I looking for? Is there a common term for this?

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Elmo GS1200 with external crystal-sync. The only problem is you'll need some deep pocket to acquire that.

My "workaround" is to camcorder the film while recording the audio (good-ole off-the-wall method). Then match it up in the video editing program. The image quality probably doesn't matter - it will be only used for reference during the edit and that's it.

The projector's speed isn't that critical, as long as it does not drift heavily within the same reel. Mine would vary a bit between the head vs the end of the reel - but just around 0.1-0.2 fps difference. Still perfectly fine for this job.

The lesson I learned from the process - it doesn't have to be a frame accurate sync. Unless it's dancing performance or so you'll unlikely to notice 1-2 frame sync error.

Moreover since sound naturally travels much slower than light so we're get used to that. You brain will then be more tolerable to the delay in audio than in video. A 0.2 second audio delay will be probably go unnoticed in most case. But a 0.2s advance in audio will be quite noticeable. You may not pick it up immediately, but will know that something is obviuosly wrong/unnatural in the audio.
This truth alone would make you feel more relax for this job.

[David Navratil]

That projector looks sweet. I think I have to get that one someday.

Interesting observation about the sync. But even if I can't notice it, it's kind of a matter of principle. But the idea with filming it for the sync actually isn't too bad, I'll seriously consider that if I can't find a better solution.

0.1 fps difference sounds like quite a lot, considering how even 23.976 fps can drift off from 24 fps rather quickly. But I think the problem isn't that it's not perfectly precise, but that the speed likely changes over time, depending on how full the spools are, effectively making it impossible to just change the speed for a perfect fit.

Oh well, I'll figure something out.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

For some critical work I'd match that up SHOT BY SHOT in the editing program. Time consuming of course, but the result is near-perfect. Actually nobody ever noticed any sync issue - at all.

For less critical work (narrative documentary for example) I might simply match up just the begingine & the end. If there's, say, only a few frames of audio delay in the middle, I'd probably just heck with that and export the finished work right away.

[David Navratil]

Ah, I see. Shot by shot sounds like quite a lot of work indeed.

I think I ought to rephrase my original question after reevaluating my approach.

What's a nice and reliable projector that can do both stereo (simultaneous output) magnetic and optical mono sound? I know of the Elmo ST 1200 HD MO, is there any other nice option I should consider?

[Martin Davey]

"Ideally it can play Super 8 and Normal 8, both stereo magnetic and ideally also the rare optical audio."

To avoid confusion for David it should be pointed out that NO projector can do the above, inc the ones mentioned in the thread. A normal/ standard 8 machine would need to be a seperate purchase.

[Lee Mannering]

David If your hoping to individually frame scan the images at very slow speed in the hope of recording sound a no go.
I scan the images first then treat the sound as a separate job. For the last few years a Eumig 810 dual is fine for sound capture. I dont thread the film as normal tho..
I adapted the projector to manual threading also fitting a jockey roller bottom front to lead the film into the sound head. Reason? Less strain on vintage splices. Drop the images and sound into editing software match up and export.

[David Navratil]

Martin Davey Thanks for the info, I guess I'm looking for separate units then.

Lee Mannering Oh no, not at all. I already have a scanner for the frame-by-frame scanning. Now I'm looking for a separate one for the sound part. After a bit of more reading, the Eumig S940 or S938 seem to be really liked units in terms of sound quality, even over the ST 1200 models. I'm not sure what the differences between the S938 and S940 models might be. The latter seems to have some programming capabilities, but I don't think I need those. Any clues? Might just go for the S938 otherwise if the quality is identical, and save a bit of money. Then I would just need to figure out how to get a stereo output somehow. That output adapter cable seems hard to come by.