Need advice on a 16mm projector

[Fred Hess]

I'm thinking about setting a 16mm system similar to my 8mm setup. I don't get many calls for 16mm, but I've recently had to turn down a couple jobs for transferring 16mm and am toying with the idea of putting a new system together.
I'm assuming that I can follow the same procedure that I used for 8mm. LED light source, new lens, removing all gate obstacles, etc.
I'm wondering if anyone has some advice about a good 16mm projector I can use. I really like my Dualux 1000 for 8mm. Did they also make a 16mm projector? Or are there any others that you have used that work well (and are relatively easy to convert)?
Any ideas appreciated! Thx

[Robert Held]

I'm building a similar system, fully stripping down a 16mm projector and installing my own motor, controls, light, etc. I'm using a mid-70s Bell and Howell Filmosound. I chose it because it's an easy projector to modify and there are lots of them available on Facebook Marketplace or Craigslist for $50 or less. However, every one I've found (and I've bought three of them, all local to me) has a split worm drive gear. Reading online, they essentially have all split, even new-in-box ones. And if the gear hasn't split yet, it will sometime soon. It's quite the design flaw. A replacement, newly machined gear is about $100. Replacing it is a little complicated, but there are good Youtube tutorials. In any case, there are lots of different 16mm projectors and if get creative, I think that most, if not all, can be modified for scanning.😀 I project 16mm with an Akai SNT-0, which is a fantastic machine, in my opinion. Elmo projectors are really great too. But at the cost of projectors like Akai and Elmo, I'd be reluctant to strip them down and modify them, unless one could be found that's basically junk other than the mechanicals. I don't think Sankyo made 16mm projectors.

[Fred Hess]

Thanks Robert. Good to know. Wondering if I should look for something with sound. While most R8/S8 reels don't have sound, I'm not sure about 16mm. Was sound a common feature of 16mm?

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Fred,
16mm has magnetic and optical sound. I have modified several 16mm projectors with Kim's help using the RPI camera for real time transfer at 24FPS. Pretty decent transfer and good sound.
Real time transfer has some ghosting issue and some people prefer to go frame by frame. I have not done any frame-by-frame in 16mm but upsampled the capture at 48FPS and used the odd or even frames which significantly reduces ghosting. Although this produces very good results, the process is more compicated.

[Robert Held]

As Stan mentioned, 16mm film usually has sound, so a sound projector is definitely needed. Sound has been around since the late 1930s. However, earlier 16mm from the 1920s until the late 1930s is silent. Silent 16mm has sprocket holes or perforations on both edges of the film, and sound 16mm has perforations only one edge, with the optical or mag track on the other. Silent 16mm also runs slower at 16 or 18 fps.

[Fred Hess]

Stan, I've been looking at using the PI camera for awhile now, but haven't gone down that road yet. Seems like it takes a lot of configuration and wiring and programming to get it working. I really like the results I'm getting from my 3CC Panasonic, so I keep pushing the idea into the corner. Perhaps with a 16mm setup I can go that route. Are you willing to guide me along the way? Do you have any pics of a 16mm setup that you use? I think I can modify a projector without too much trouble, but as far as setting up the camera, well I'd need lots of guidance. I'd sure appreciate your help (as well as anyone else who can give me some guidance!). I'll start browsing YouTube also to get me started. Thanks.

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Fred,
This will give you a rough idea of what is involved.
https://github.com/vintagefilmograph..._TRV16H_HD_mod
You can also run 48FPS with this setup for low ghosting (more postprocessing):
https://github.com/vintagefilmograph...frame_by_frame
You also could consider Elmo 16CL mod. May work with your CCD camera.
https://github.com/vintagefilmography/ELMO_16CL
I can help you with the setup.
Stan

[Fred Hess]

Hi Stan,
Just exactly what I was looking for! Some great info for me to peruse. Once I purchase a projector and camera system I'm sure I'll be back seeking more advice. Thanks for helping me out!
Fred

[Stan Jelavic]

Any time Fred...