Frame by Frame scan of a short clip of 16mm film.

[Ozzie Williams]

Hi, I hope this is okay to post? I would be very grateful for any thoughts...

I have been asked to provide about 9 seconds of footage from an old film of the Isle of Mann for a professional film project. I was happy to do this (for free), but I fear my digitised copies of projections are not comming out quite good enough...or perhaps better phrased...my usual standard is okay for Youtube, but could be better for this sort of project.

Do you think a digital frame by frame transfer would be much better (A Moviestuff kind of thing)? I not, then there is no further to go, but if so, I don't suppose anyone knows of someone with one nearish to London?

[Stan Jelavic]

What machine are you using Ozzie? What is the condition of the film?

[Ozzie Williams]

Hi Stan,

I used a Bolex S321 with a Canon AOS 4000D. The film is pretty good really, nice colour. The problem is we have a shot of a plane landing, and there is a white out.

Now, it looks like that at projection (so probably not the camera blasting), but I can't help but think we might be able to squeeze a little more info out of these frames with a digital scanner like a Movie Stuff one.

But it might just be I am at the limit of what is actually on the film...

I am not sure...I can give the link to the footage, as a test is on YT. That would not be a problem I guess.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

9 seconds? So that's about 216 frames to be captured.

I'm thinking about setting up the projector & camera to get the direct lens - to - lens sort of arrangement (no "off the wall setup" allowed ). Then manually inching the film pass the projector, and fire the camera to capture it one frame at a time. On my rough estimation that would take about half an hour - well within the range of full-manual process. Most video editing program should be able to handle a few hundred still images just fine.

By the way if the final output is HD 1920*1080, capturing each frame at 3 megapixel should be more than enough. No need to overkill!

[Ricky Daniels]

Hi Ozzie,
The frame by frame idea could workout for you but without pin registration in the projector gate you’d no doubt need to steady the image in your NLE.
If indeed an image is present on the film in that “whiteout” shot I’d try doing several passes at various exposures and editing the best shots from each pass together in you NLE.
Without industry standard scanning you’ll always have to compromise, but good luck.
Best
Rick

[Stan Jelavic]

Definitely you have to capture directly into the camera from the gate. Not sure what equipment you have but here is a suggestion. Remove the projector lens and replace the projector lamp with the led light of some sort. You can rig up your own or just get a small light that will fit the projector.
Use a macro lens with you Canon. You will need a 4 to 5X. If you do not have one then a wide angle lens can be used with a reverse mount ring.
For a short clip that you have you can manually advance the frames and snap a picture of each. Possibly multiple exposures and then use one of the HDR programs in the post.

[Ozzie Williams]

9 seconds? So that's about 216 frames to be captured.

I'm thinking about setting up the projector & camera to get the direct lens - to - lens sort of arrangement (no "off the wall setup" allowed ). Then manually inching the film pass the projector, and fire the camera to capture it one frame at a time. On my rough estimation that would take about half an hour - well within the range of full-manual process. Most video editing program should be able to handle a few hundred still images just fine.

By the way if the final output is HD 1920*1080, capturing each frame at 3 megapixel should be more than enough. No need to overkill!

Many thanks for this suggestion...I think something like this might work...though of course I might use a back light rather than 1000 watts of projection lamp for each still shot.

I mean at 216 frames or so, this sort of thing does become a realistic proposition, and doubtless with better than "off the wall" results!

[Ozzie Williams]

The frame by frame idea could workout for you but without pin registration in the projector gate you’d no doubt need to steady the image in your NLE.
If indeed an image is present on the film in that “whiteout” shot I’d try doing several passes at various exposures and editing the best shots from each pass together in you NLE.
Without industry standard scanning you’ll always have to compromise, but good luck.
Best Rick

Hi Ricky...thanks very much for this suggestion. I am going to assume that NLE means my post production editor for the purpsoses of this reply.

I may be able to try something like this. It is certainly possible that the camera settings could be more closely attuned across a number of shoots. But as you say, and now I think about it a bit more...there is a question as to whether the information is actually in the image. I guess dropping the illumination is going to be an additional factor to address this issue. The "white out" is there...I guess the question is, have I set illumination to make the best adjustment for this that I can?

[Ozzie Williams]

Definitely you have to capture directly into the camera from the gate. Not sure what equipment you have but here is a suggestion. Remove the projector lens and replace the projector lamp with the led light of some sort. You can rig up your own or just get a small light that will fit the projector.
Use a macro lens with you Canon. You will need a 4 to 5X. If you do not have one then a wide angle lens can be used with a reverse mount ring.
For a short clip that you have you can manually advance the frames and snap a picture of each. Possibly multiple exposures and then use one of the HDR programs in the post.

Thank you Stan for this advice. It is a great thing about this site that there are so many people with ideas, suggestions and knowledge in this specialist area. I can do something like this. I fear it may take me more time than I have at the moment...but I guess at some point I am going to have to move "off the wall" in terms of digitising.

(just of to look into what HDR programs are...sometimes I suspect I have so much to learn I have too few years left to ever make a decent copy of 16mm!)

[Ricky Daniels]

Hi Ozzie,
Yeah, you got it 👍
NLE (non linear editing) = Computer Software based editing... and those of us who’ve been around a handful of decades will also know of Linear (tape to tape) Editing... you don’t know just how easy you’ve got it today! 😂
Good luck.
Rick

[Stan Jelavic]

Hi Ozzie, since you do not have too much to scan you could try a cheap approach. Get the 16mm gate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltHuyay-2Os
Place it over a light and mount the camera above it. Could possibly use a stand.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZF2VV48
Then manually slide the film and snap pictures. You will probably have to connect the camera to a monitor and slide the film until the perforations align with a marked up location on the monitor.
You do not need a 4 - 5X macro. A 2X should be ok. 4-5X is required for the 8mm film.
You could also use a wide angle lens (around 28mm) with a reverse ring.
https://www.macrophotobug.com/how-to...magnification/
This should give you nice sharp captures.
HDR (high dynamic range) is needed if the images have both very dark and lite areas such as a sky and deep shadows. You run multiple shots with teh camera and different exposures. You camera may have that capability (bracketed shots), or you do it manually. Take a shot at low and then the same shot at high exposures.
Then in the post use a freeware program to assemble the video.