DIY Frame by Frame Telecine Issue

[Stan Jelavic]

Looks like a good plan to me. If the tachometer does confirm speed change the possible remedy is to check the drive components for wear and tear. If the motor is the culprit then possibly replace the motor with a better one or look for another sound projector.

[Larry Bell]

OK, the audio recorder arrived and I ripped the projector apart. Bypassed the amp and recorded audio on the recorder. Much. much better. I did filter a slight hum out. See new results here:
https://youtu.be/ynTwyU78-eI
The tach has not arrived yet to check the speed consistency.
Now, the next issue! Synching the video to audio. I played with this for quite a while today and was not able to synch them. There is a huge difference as you can see in the posted test video. I'm unsure of why this is so different. Could be speed consistency on the audio, the way vurtualdub put the pics together, or some other issue. How is everyone synching there video and audio? Thanks!

Edit: The tach came in and the fps varies from 23.3 to 24.1 randomly over 3 minutes. Obviously, I have to fix that but I doubt it accounts for the giant issue with synch that I have.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

So that's EXACTLY the same issue I once encountered with and finally gave up.

Maybe getting other projector with AC induction motor would be a better option. At least the speed should be fairy stable (not quartz-locked accuracy, but should be vastly superior than this.)

[David Brown]

That's quite an improvement in audio quality, Larry!

Still sometimes there is wow and flutter, I don't know which is which or if those always come together!

I'm assuming this is optical sound on film. Film can stretch, but not like magnetic audio tape.

Could it be the projector's capstan? A hardened rubber roller or slipping drive belt? I'm no expert here.

If all efforts to mechanically stabilize the audio fail or exceed your patience, I think there are audio filters to correct that problem in post. Even Audacity can use outside audio plugins.

I didn't read all of this, it might help some.
https://www.sfu.ca/~gotfrit/ZAP_Sept..._16mm_mix.html

This is not free. There is a free demo for what it's worth.
https://shop.celemony.com/cgi-bin/We...s/CelemonyShop

[Larry Bell]

So that's EXACTLY the same issue I once encountered with and finally gave up.

Maybe getting other projector with AC induction motor would be a better option. At least the speed should be fairy stable (not quartz-locked accuracy, but should be vastly superior than this.)

Yep, it's either that or a different projector.

[Larry Bell]

That's quite an improvement in audio quality, Larry!

Still sometimes there is wow and flutter, I don't know which is which or if those always come together!

I'm assuming this is optical sound on film. Film can stretch, but not like magnetic audio tape.

Could it be the projector's capstan? A hardened rubber roller or slipping drive belt? I'm no expert here.

If all efforts to mechanically stabilize the audio fail or exceed your patience, I think there are audio filters to correct that problem in post. Even Audacity can use outside audio plugins.

I didn't read all of this, it might help some.
https://www.sfu.ca/~gotfrit/ZAP_Sept..._16mm_mix.html

This is not free. There is a free demo for what it's worth.
https://shop.celemony.com/cgi-bin/We...s/CelemonyShop

Thanks! The wow or flutter could be a byproduct of the speed variation. Strange how its more noticeable when the guy sings.

[Stan Jelavic]

Good work Larry. Here are a few more comments.
The audio sounds very clean. The wow and flutter is only present when the guy sings so I think that is in the original recording. Not as easy to fix that because it is not very consistent. There may be plugins as Dave suggested to mitigate that, not sure.
I do not have much experience with audio synching but there are ways of shrinking and screeching of audio tracks without pitch change. My Magix video editor has that and I am sure other decent editors will have that. Check daVinci. It is free.

[Larry Bell]

I think Stan is correct that the flutter is likely in the recording. It sounds the same on my Panoram. Here's the final synched version. I think I can improve slightly with a more steady motor, which I have ordered. Keep in mind that these soundies were lip synched originally so they weren't exact to start with.
https://youtu.be/lz2aYKOoEa4

[Larry Bell]

It is very difficult to see well enough to focus the manual lens or see any hair or dirt in the gate. So I added this monitor to take care of that problem.

[Stan Jelavic]

That is similar to what I do with my Mark2, connect a large monitor to the HDMI cam output.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/b9UaCcBGYQJpEoZC6

[Larry Bell]

That is similar to what I do with my Mark2, connect a large monitor to the HDMI cam output.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/b9UaCcBGYQJpEoZC6

Very nice Stan!

[Stan Jelavic]

Thank you Larry.

[Erkki Tikkanen]

Larry Bell - the sound was great compared to the first post. Please remember to flip the film horizontally when finished editing.

[Tom Fales]

You might want to check the "DIY Cine Film Scanner Makers" group on Facebook. Interesting ideas by members.
DIY Cine Film Scanner Makers | Groups | Facebook

[Stan Jelavic]

Thanks Tom. I will join the group.