Conversion black box verse the old fashion way

[Phillip Daniel]

I have been converting taped movies/videos of all formats, 8mm and super8mm as well as 35mm slides, negatives and photos for a couple years now. I just recently started converting 16mm film to digital. I bought one of those black boxes with a window for the projector and round lens for digital camera. I have not used it yet. So far I am converting the 8 and super 8 with a wolverine digitizer which works very well. I convert the 35mm slides with another Wolverine slide converter. I would like to know if the "black box' way of converting is any better than using a white screen on the wall with a digital camera and 16mm projector? Your opinions please.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

It'd be just more convenient, but not better than conventional off-the-wall process afaik. The hot-spot issue seems inevitable. The screen surface would add more grain to the image as well.

If the space is not an issue you may stick to good old off-the-wall way. But since you'd already had that conversion box it's best to try it out, then compare the results.

[Ken Finch]

Hi Daniel, I have seen the results of the”black box” method and it is not as good as the off the screen way which I have been using for some years now. As mentioned by Nantawat the definition is poor and there is a hot spot issue. I do not know how you overcome the ticker problem in the U S but in the UK we use a 3 blade shutter projector and run silent films at 16.33 fps and sound at 25 fps. Ken Finch.

[Phillip Daniel]

Thanks you so very much.

[Gary Sayers]

My answer to the same question on a previous thread (basically, what has already been said here).

https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...bico-converter

[David Strelitz]

I would make the point that there are many variables that don't get a mention.
I transferred my first film 39 years ago so have almost served my apprenticeship. Last week over 5000 feet went through the system.
Filming off a wall ROTFL. Speeding up 18 to 24 in the computer REALLY???

The transfer optics including any screen ...not all are equal, even down to any surface silver mirror. Mine was manufactured in Europe and I flew out and visited the manufacturer...and did a takeaway.

The camera head. At the heart of my rig is a 850 line 3 chip Hyper-had camera with a CCU so all basic levels are controlled from there which includes iris, pedestal and W/B adjustment at White and Black ends. For PAL the basic projector speed is 16.66 FPS with a 3 bladed projector shutter but where 18 or 24 FPS needs to be used for 8 or 16mm then the Clearscan on the camera will remove any strobing. I used to have both 8 and 16mm custom built 2 bladed projectors for 25fps transfer but they are long since recycled and CLS does the job as well.

Transfer options to the editing prog is via FireWire, S or YUV. Colour correction in post if required is via Edius. Decent quality encoding is a whole different subject as not all encoders are equal but for mp4 Handbrake used correctly is free and sets the bar high.

In conclusion if the system gives corner to corner illumination with no hotspot and you can see the film grain that seems a good starting point.

[Gary Sayers]

Of course there are variables, depending on the equipment you can afford.

The question on both threads was which is better, the black box method or off the wall method. The original posters would expect members to speak from their experience, which is what I did. My experience of transferring film (going back 41 years, for what it's worth) is purely at the very basic level but I thought I would answer the question asked, you know, to try and be helpful.

The tone of your post makes me wish I hadn't bothered posting.

[Phillip Daniel]

Gary, I agree with every word you posted above. I am a simple country boy from Alabama, gave 47 years of service to my country (20 years in the military and 27 years as a Air Force Defense Contractor). I live on a modest fixed income and do the conversion work as a source of income for thos little "extra" things. Unfortunately, I don't have the money to purchase those high class, fancy, fly around the country to get them, pieces of equipment to produce a commercial movie grade transfer. All I wanted was, as you and a couple others provided, was some opinions as to which form of transfer worked best for them. Now that I have tried the "black box" I find the "old fashion way" works best for me. Less hassle and less time consuming. I thank you for your input.

[David Strelitz]

Of course there are variables, depending on the equipment you can afford.

The question on both threads was which is better, the black box method or off the wall method. The original posters would expect members to speak from their experience, which is what I did. My experience of transferring film (going back 41 years, for what it's worth) is purely at the very basic level but I thought I would answer the question asked, you know, to try and be helpful.

The tone of your post makes me wish I hadn't bothered posting.

As you say "very basic" . So does that have to be a common denominator?

Even the simplest and most basic of setups can be improved.

[Gary Sayers]

Thank you Phillip and all the best with your transfers.

[Phillip Daniel]

yhank you 😃

[David Strelitz]

..... and do the conversion work as a source of income for thos little "extra" things. Unfortunately, I don't have the money to purchase those high class, fancy, fly around the country to get them, pieces of equipment to produce a commercial movie grade transfer. .

Firstly as anyone here that knows anything about telecine will confirm, my setup is not "movie grade". Spending another £50k would be entry level. I do however produce good results for a mainly domestic service and have retail clients who I have provided video services for, for over 30 years.

If you are doing your own films or freebies for friends and family, whatever, but if you are charging people money I make no apologies for thinking they deserve better than filming off the wall with a domestic camcorder....well they do this side of the pond.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

If you ever want to go beyond off-the-wall method to get VASTLY superior result with moderate investment, you may be interested in this kind of setup.

This direct to lens method will blow any off-the-wall system out the water hands down.
And forget professional equipments from yesteryear, today's camera will easily outperform them in terms of image quality.

[Phillip Daniel]

I assume this setup is for 8mm film. I don't do 8mm with a "off the wall" setup. I have a wolverine 8mm/super8mm digitizer (see attached). It takes a pic of each frame on the film, digitizes it and puts all of them onto a sd card as a digital movie. I then upload to my PC and use my video editor to edit, change, add sound, special effects etc.

Right now I only have two solutions for the 16mm, either the black box or the wall system.

[Nantawat Kittiwarakul]

Yes I do have the 16mm setup as well. It is principally identical to this one, just in 16mm gauge.

BTW a new 16mm work from my customer just come in which I'll have it done within a few day. Will post a pic of my setup then.