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Elmo 16CL sound fix

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  • Elmo 16CL sound fix

    Got this Elmo 16CL on ...bay and it was in a pretty sad shape. All pulley rubber became gooey including the takeup reel pulley. The mechanics works ok and no sound. So, here wanted to describe how I fixed the sound.
    The first thing was to do the internet search and came across this post.
    https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-b...c;f=5;t=000779
    Lots of good stuff there.
    Also
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBgn_0ZEGdk&t=219s
    But first I wanted to fix the pulleys.
    Kim suggested this source
    https://www.urbanskifilm.com/elmo.html
    But that was quite a bit of money so did some more snooping around and found this site
    https://sayyes2analog.wordpress.com/...ubber-rollers/
    This gave me the idea on pulley dims, so went ahead and got some neoprene tubing and replaced all pulleys except the takeup.

    Click image for larger version

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    That seem to do a good job but still no sound.
    Following the advice from Janice and others spent several hours studying the sound components and decide to pull out the whole buzz track.
    Also checked the service manual.
    The buzz track is held in place by 1 screw that has to be accessed from the back but requires the flywheel to be removed first.
    Then remove the adjusting nut.

    Click image for larger version

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    Then wiggle the unit out being careful not to damage any wiring. Also check from the back for any binding wires.
    I found the following issues.
    - the small glass at the top of the lens housing needed good cleaning.
    - the photosensor (solar unit hehe) is held only with 1 screw and a small tab was bent. Had to carefully bend it back and reinstall it. Use small eyeglasses repair screwdriver if needed,
    Had to clean the slider post, that is the post held by lock screw. The lock screw is there to lock the unit in position after tuning. Loosen the lock screw and push the post out. You may need to wiggle it in the out to release it. The clean the post and the hole with alcohol. Don't t think you need and lubricatiion there.
    Put everything back and leave adjusting nut attached by only a few threads so that the unit is all the way out.
    After doing all of this I got the sound. Was distorted and weak but then it got better as I turned the adjusting nut in. A finally was able to get the good and clean sound after a few turns.
    Use music to adjust and turn the adjusting nut in and out cleanest sound.
    Still have a few issues.
    - Takeup has too much force
    - Periodic popping sound in the speaker. Possibly bad rectifiers or bad headset jack contacts

    Once this is fixed plan to add the led light and the RPI for real time capture with 3 blades. Tested that already and that work very good.









  • #2
    The popping sound fixed. It was one of the power switches located on the volume control.
    Also fixed the takeup by installing a new neoprene belt.
    Last edited by Stan Jelavic; March 20, 2024, 07:26 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Nice work Stan!The Elmo 16 CL is a great 16 mm projector. The only issue now is that they no longer make the BRK exciter lamp. These bulbs do last a very long time but I have had them go out and if you can find the bulb they are very expensive now.

      Also be aware that with real-time captures you will get ghosting. I've done real time captures with a three blade shutter and a five blade shutter and still got ghosting. I was only able to eliminate this with a frame by frame projector.

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      • #4
        Thank you Janice. You always bring up good points and I really appreciate that.
        This is definitely a nice machine but it does require quite a bit of work to restore it back.
        Here is my take on ghosting:
        - old video recorders use Mpeg compression with the key frames and diff frames. The key frame is the complete frame like the one taken by the frame-by-frame process and the diff frames are the ones that just include the difference from the previous frame and does the blend of a sort. The assumption is that the difference is not big. With wild panning the difference is so large that the blending algorithm picks up lots of pixels from the previous frame and then you get the double image. I did study that a long time ago and had a c program that mimics the mpeg compression. But must admit I just remember some bits and pieces of it. So this is my first take at it.
        - In newer cams, like the RPI HQ cam that I am using you can control how many diff frames you have between the keyframes and you can set that until ghosting is virtually gone, but the downside is the file size that becomes rather huge. So it is a compromise.

        I will compile a video with different keyframe setting and will post it here.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Stan... I'm still using a Canon video camera so that is probably why the ghosting is more predominant for me when converting in real-time. Sounds like your solution has more adjustments to compensate for the ghosting. When I was testing I got very frustrated especially after I bought an Elmo 16CL with a five blade shutter and that didn't help either. It wasn't until I found an old MovieStuff Eiki frame by frame projector that the ghosting was eliminated. I'm very happy with this projector and the quality of the captures.




          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you for sharing Janice. Definitely the frame by frame produces a superior video and I believe we all agree on that. On the other hand I am trying to get close to that with the real time capture. There are advantages with that approach as we already know:
            - no trigger and tedious trigger tuning
            - it runs real time in oppose to 8 FPS
            - easier to sync the sound
            - no custom sw that is no longer supported

            But there are disadvantages also like a large output file if no ghosting is required.
            I still do not have a proper setup with the 16CL and RPI. I ran the test by holding the RPI in my hand which is pretty tricky.
            But anyways I will post the results once I get the setup in decent shape.

            Comment


            • #7
              The setup is almost complete. Here is a test clip:
              https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f9l...ew?usp=sharing
              The keyframe rate is set to 5 so there is some ghosting but to me it looks pretty good.
              It can be further improved by reducing the keyframe rate.

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              • #8
                Looks great Stan! The ghosting is minimal... Very acceptable. Nice work!

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                • #9
                  Thank you Janice. I will try setting the keyframes to 2.
                  The capture is at 24 FPS. No flicker and no need to edit sound.
                  I still have to do something about the takeup mechanism.
                  Made my own belt but it tugs too hard during rewind.
                  Also have to do the mount for the RPI.

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                  • #10
                    Hey Janice, is the MovieStuff Eiki able to capture the audio from a sound film or is it just for silent films?

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                    • #11
                      Silent only Kim.

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                      • #12
                        Did a similar mod with Eiki16mm. It worked pretty good. Kim commented that the image is a a bit soft. Maybe it is my eyes because the focus range is quite wide with this setup so not sure if I hit the sharpest spot.
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3dut8AWO1U&t=91s

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                        • #13
                          I can mail you my SMPTE registration film if it will help.

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                          • #14
                            Hi Stan is the eiki unit you used a 3580 ? What does the kit include

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                            • #15
                              Thanks Kim, I can definitely use that.
                              Hi Jim. It is Eiki Slim Line. I really liked the unit (it is gone - sold it).
                              This will give you an idea what the kit contains.
                              Click image for larger version

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                              It is RPI4 based with the RPI HQ camera and 16mm lens.
                              Spent a few months tweaking the software to get rid of the 3 blade flicker and
                              go get the sound working. But pretty happy with the mod.
                              Would not mind to get another unit like this one.

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