Outrageous prices driven by Newbies?

[Osi Osgood]

I think it's a valid issue, though there is little that can be done about it, except potentially educate newbies. Take, for instance, an ebay auction for a super 8 feature of Death Wish. It's being rediculously bid up, and even with misleading photos. The seller does show actual frames of the film, and yes, the seller states that it is faded, but uses a cyan blue light source which will render the fade much less than it actually is. Either that or the seller is intentionally tinting the photos with an overall bluish/cyan filter. The person who wins this, will no doubt compare the print they get with the photos and realize that that it doesn't match. By the way, I have noticed a lot more sellers doing this tinted photos gimmick these days. The problem with this is that we all know that if this hobby will continue past our generation, it will take these newbies making the hobby continue, but many newbies will run away due to lousy film sales, and these rediculous prices paid will drive prices up on crap prints, so it would be good to, perhaps, have a section, on this forum, within this forum, to warn collectors of bad actor sellers. Lastly, however, before we as a forum, call out bad actors, let's make sure that, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the sellers are purposefully mis stating they're prints.

[Mike Newell]

Three things driving silly prices on eBay. The sellers them haven’t a clue or brain cell in their heads. In their eyes they have an unique piece of movie memorabilia from the days of their granddads or pulled out of a house sale or dumpster. They have been taught this by movie props or posters it all sooooooooo valuable. They wouldn’t have a clue how to thread up a projector let alone give an opinion on a film’s condition or value.

The other factor is eBay. It collects fees from sales. If they had a listing fee of even 0.5 or 1% like they used to 20 years ago you would suddenly see a dramatic levelling of prices. They won’t do that because so many of their crazy listings would disappear instantly. Also as they now collect the money at the end they are guaranteed payment so it is sweet deal to them.

The last thing driving up prices is inflation. You can see everything going up in price commodities, houses , gold. Film and music memorabilia. Like rock stars buying art. They couldn’t give a fiddlers about it but it was an investment and tax dodge guaranteed as far as they are concerned.

[Stuart Budd]

This isn't limited to Cine. A lot of hobbies have inflated prices due to eBay and a larger audience. Lets not forget these are rare and highly desirable, you'll never get the chance to own anything like this again...
...until next week
Funny thing, nearly everything I've bought, nearly but not everything, I could never ask the price I paid to a new buyer! I've got some bargains though and wasn't force to pay the prices I did. So even though there are those that sell at daft prices and those that are willing to pay silly money. There are also those that know better or learn quick and those that sell at great prices and often go out of their way to give a great deal.
Me personally, the first chance I get to rip someone off big time and earn $$$$ or ££ , I'll take it

[Mike Newell]

That’s the spirit Stuart. Have a few old Laurel and Hardy silents to sell off Hats off and full length Battle of the Century. Bound to get a fiver for them.

[Graham Sinden]

Mike I think you are missing the point. These are not crazy buyers at all, just some who like to watch a film on film faded or not. These are also quite rare compared with LP's and Video for example and that drives the price up of course. When talking Derann prints these may have only have sold around 200 copies whereas LP's sold in their millions and can be bought off the high street in loads of second hand vinyl stores. Where are the second hand cine stores apart from CHC?

If you want to talk about crazy prices then why not mention the price of a new 'silent' 9.5 projector back in the 1930's. Or the fact an 'edited' super 8 film in the 1970's would cost you at least £70.

I've noticed prices started to climb higher since Derann stopped printing films, It made their modern releases highly prized which is natural in supply and demand.

Yes Ebay make money from sales but it still takes people to bid on it, not the fault of Ebay.

I'm afraid the high prices are what they are and will only change if young collectors turn their back on cine and go for the ultra sharp digital instead.

Graham S

[Mike Newell]

Graham you have a point there are more albums compared to super 8 films but then there are more turntables compared to projectors. It would be sad if pricing effectively closed 8mm to any future young collectors.

Film collecting was an expensive hobby to start with but the crazy prices popping up are unreal and looney 🙄 They will be unsold on eBay for an age.

I can understand the prices for Derann and new releases but the pre 1982 releases. Why???
They are all turning pink likely scratched. A bit like buying a record that skip or jumps just fit for the bin.

[Osi Osgood]

Not all prints pre 1982 are faded messes. Eastman? Yep, in various stages of fade, but Agfa has existed a lot longer that LPP and, still maintaining it's color. Originally called Anscochrome, Agfa has existed since the 1940's. I have these prints, and they are still as colorful as the day they were struck. Fuji film stock, in the late 70's, achieved a very good stock, as these have not faded, as well as prints, all over the world, struck on Kodachrome film stock ... Just beautiful. Heck, strangely enough, even some Eastman stock from the 70's, that had aged well, (like those Elvis features) that still look great. But yes, a lot of fadey prints before 82.

[Brian Fretwell]

INdeed, as I have said before, I hace some standard 8 Agfa colour prints that have perfect colour and some Eastman with odd codes that are very good.

[Mike Newell]

Would you seriously want to speculate money on buying anything particularly unseen on older product. The pink syndrome has come to the fore because the films are now 40 to 50 years old. Prior to 2000 most pink films were that way from the time they were released or had been stored in warmer climates it wasn’t as prevalent as it has become now.

Another reason is apart from the odd feature release most of the output prior to the Derann era from mid 1980s until their closure were digests which with the exception of Universal 8 and a few others could be constituted or lumped together as tat or junk.

When watching movies nobody wants edited highlights no matter how well done. Serious collectors want full features.

[Edward Nicielnik]

I brought Popeye the Salior meets Sindad the Salior off Ian Perrys perfect color but Niles Prints are Red

[Mike Newell]

There will always be films that hold their colours but if you read threads and posts on this forum you will get example after example of collectors saying prints have turned or gone pink. Prior to downsizing i never encountered it as an issue but like COVID it is everywhere now.

[Lee Mannering]

Graham is quite right some experienced hands have left the lobby partly due to the cost of film. But film has always been a luxury hobby truth be said just look back to the price of kit in the 50's.
Costs of day to day life are mounting and we still have to yet be carbon neutral oh moother.

We are happy with our collection here and its now pretty much investing in new prints to sort of modernise it if that sounds right which has been great fun. You can tell those spending very high have no experience as oft new prints of the title are now available SWs being one of them.

Perhaps we should be thinking of ways to reach out to newcomers and pointing them in the right direction?

[David Strelitz]

I don't think this is eBay or cine specific but more to do with "Auction syndrome".
I have attended trade auctions and witnessed two bidders fighting it out and paying way over the odds for a broadcast camera, that was sold as seen, yet a reputable dealer would have been cheaper and put a 3month warranty on as well. I'm convinced if a paper cup of cold tea had been in the catalogue, it would have gone for 15quid!
A few Christmases ago I bought a pristine 824 for £27.50...it just slipped through unnoticed. How many times have you seen them go for £200+.?

[Lee Mannering]

This is true.

We also got a good Eumig 824 at the recent 9.5 event no one seemed interested as missing a couple of parts perhaps. £35 later its here and running. I still believe right or wrong some of the rampant fleabay main stream traders who command top end pricing will be concerned our UK film conventions are up and running again thankfully. The best purchases for us are always made face to face. You can chat about the film, talk about condition and reach a mutual purchase ideal for us on used items. Conventions have thankfully retained the old normal not the new type.

I'm with you Osi on this.

[Osi Osgood]

Mike, digests are a product of they're time and I think that it is more nolstalgia for the old days than anything else, but still, there was a very good purpose for them at the time. If not for digests, many people would not have been able to view many a film. This was an era that the only way you could see a beloved feature is if you were lucky enough to see it be reissued to theaters or just maybe, it would show up on the networks. Quite often, because of digests, the average bloke could even see a film, before it even showed up in theaters, as our lads in England can attest to. For instance, Star Wars.