Amazing Story of New Zealand Parents

[Paul Adsett]

The amazing and heartbreaking story of the NZ parents who lost their son on UAL Flight 811:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A2wvaRDzbQ

[Graham Ritchie]

Paul
I remember just after that terrible accident, airlines would pop the CB after closing the freight door to isolate any chance of power to the motor. The research from the family in finding that the secondary locking on the 747 was weak from the start, makes me wonder how many other 747s might have been lost this way in the past.

Its an incredible story of a family to find the answers.

[Paul Adsett]

And when I think that I was regularly flying on 747's during that period...............

Graham do you know if Boeing still uses this type of outward opening door on any of their current planes, or have they (hopefully) abandoned that type of design and gone to the inside type door (which is sealed by internal pressure) on all their planes..

[Graham Ritchie]

Hi Paul

I don't know what they use these days, it was always considered that the "plug" type door was the best. When I first watched this video I was shocked to see how the doors were locked. Comparing the locking system used in British built aircraft like the old HS748 and that there primary and secondary locking system had been well thought out. Even though those aircraft were not the plug type, they were well engineered to be 100% totally safe in my book. I remember a story going around back then, of a Continental DC10 arriving here with the freight door not closed properly. When the crew were informed about it, there flight engineer replied, that would be the reason they had trouble to pressure the aircraft. And to think that DC10 had flown across the Pacific like that. I also heard that the ground staff here had to insist to the flight crew that the aircraft stay grounded until the problem was properly fixed.

Back then a number of those 747 and DC10 aircraft were at that stage getting a bit old, and looking a bit rough because of it. I will say this about United Airlines after the initial meeting with that family, UA could not be more helpful and understanding and that was coming from there top management in the US.

I did work on 737 and 767 when we were a bit quiet, and "forced" to go to there number "one hanger" the odd week and help out at Air New Zealand when they were a bit short of staff.

[Graham Ritchie]

Its a wonder that aircraft held together, also the captain did an amazing job getting it on the ground.

[Paul Adsett]

The DC10 was a poor design in comparison to the 747 and the Lockheed Tristar. After that crash in Chicago when one of the engines fell off on take off, killing everyone on board, i vowed never to fly a DC10 again. DC10'S had several crashes related to their own faulty cargo door design, and when the door blew off the differential pressure collapsed the passenger compartment floor, severing the hydraulic control lines. UPS here in the USA still uses them to ship packages.
I still think the 747 was the best of the Jumbo's and loved flying on them, always feeling I was flying in a super safe plane. But then of course I did not know about the cargo door issue,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Graham Ritchie]

Hi Paul

I always think and still do that the 747 Auckland to London and back service with Air New Zealand, with only one stop at LA was a brilliant service. The 747 was well suited to long haul flights across the Pacific. I liked the idea that it had "four" Rolls Royce engines to. In 1994 I did a trip with just Steven who was about 7yrs of age and myself. I woke up after a sort of sleep to find him gone, after a while he returned, he had been upstairs talking to the pilots with a lady who had been sitting sitting next to him. I don't no if they still do it, but they used to get the kids on board to hand out the lollies .

I don't think there is any direct service to London anymore, before the 747 they did the route with there DC10s with a British aircrew flying it from London to LA, from that point on across the Pacific with Air New Zealand crew taking over.

The 747 service was really the best back then, times have certainly changed.

[Paul Adsett]

Virgin Atlantic and BA stopped flying 747's on their non-stop Orlando- to -Gatwick route at the end of 2020. Now its all 777's
Just glad I got to experience the magnificent 747 as much as I did.

[Graham Ritchie]

Hi Paul

I haven't flown in 20 years but did check up on that Auckland London run, they are using 787 and I think the 777 part way these days. I was reading a report that ANZ still require passengers to wear masks, I can't think that would be much fun on a 10-11hr flight to LA. I have never flown on any of those aircraft, so like you, my day was the 747 . The 777 and 787 are only two engines, I do prefer four. I am not sure you can get up and move about on those new aircraft, unlike the 747, you could always go for a walk.

Talking about "cargo doors" reminds me when we first got the ATR72 aircraft. I was closing the front cargo door when I noticed that it was way out of alignment. I stopped motoring it down and thought at the time this really strange, passengers were boarding down the back at the time.

After talking to a someone else, I was told, wait until all the passengers are on at the back, sure enough after they were all on, the door alignment was perfect and I closed it. I came away thinking, that if the fuselage can bend like a banana, what does the fuselage do in flight? especially in turbulence anyway that was 20 odd years ago, but never forgot closing that cargo door. We did have a name for the ATR72 and that was "The Plastic Fantastic" compared to the previous HS748 which we then called "The Flying Brick"

Here is a early picture of the ATR72 I understand they are used world wide now.

[Paul Adsett]

Graham, the first time I ever flew on a plane was on a Swiss Air Caravelle (similar to a DC9), What a thrill that was, it seemed to me to take off like a rocket, being a novice flyer.
My second flight (in 1963) was on a transatlantic BOAC flight from London Heathrow to New York. It was on a Boeing 707, and I was seated right back near the tail in an aisle seat. When the plain encountered some turbulence over Nova Scotia I could see, when looking down the aisle, the whole fuselage significantly twisting !
The noisiest arcrcraft I ever flew on was a Lockheed Electra turboprop, from Philadelphia to Orlando, back in the 60's. God that thing just vibrated and droned like crazy!

One thing that bothers me about the latest Boeing and Airbus passenger jets is that they use an epoxy composite fiber fuselage. This material can fail suddenly when overstressed or aged, and would be hell in the event of a fire situation. Hopefully they are all closely monitoring how this new material is performing in this application.