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Hello, I have been following some recent forum members posts on new super 8 small films and longer films that are taken from another film source, i guess copied for want of a better phrase, and noticed a lot on ebay of similar types, and 16 meter films too. My question is can i buy these legally ?, because they must be still owned by the film companies, do i have to get a licence or inform the film people of my intention to show there films to other people, perhaps some of the people here who offer these new films, can tell me if am breaking an laws ?. I don't want to break any laws, do i need a tv licence. There was quite a debate on here recently, started by Alan Myers, which i would liked to have joined in, but a lot of what you were talking about i could not add to in any helpful way, as i'm still learning stuff about 8mm film. Thank you for any response .
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You are not likely to be held responsible for possessing an illegally copied film, unless you made the illegal copy. You are more likely to get into trouble if you exhibit the film to the public without obtaining the license to do so from the copyright holder.
SourceCopyright Laws Related to Using Movies for Group Showing
A copyright is created once an original work of authorship is fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Virtually all movies are therefore, copyrighted which prevents others from copying, distributing, performing, displaying, and digitally transmitting without a license.
Public Display
A copyrighted movie cannot be publicly displayed without the consent of the copyright owner. However, if the movie is played privately, no violation occurs. The law defines public as a place that is open to anyone or has a substantial number of persons outside your normal social circle.
Public or Private Place
Courts often look at the nature of the establishment when determining if the showing is considered public or private. A hotel room or a private home is most likely considered a private viewing. The court will look at who is allowed in the door. In one case, a video store rented private rooms where movies could be watched. The video store said that this was a private room. However, the court decided that if anyone can pay to get in the door, then it is a public showing and copyright infringement.
Public or Private Audience
It is important to look at the size and composition of the audience in order to determine if the movie showing is private. If the group showing is invite only and involves family and friends, it is a private showing. If everyone in the neighborhood is allowed in, including people you don't know, a court would more likely consider it public.
Public Performance Rights
If a bar, club or other organization wishes to show a movie to a group, it must get permission from the copyright owner. This permission is typically obtained by getting a public performance license from the copyright owner.
Fair Use Exception
Fair use allows the use of copyrighted material in a reasonable manner without the consent of the owner. Typically, the use is considered fair if it is for commentary, criticism, education or research. Courts look at several factors when deciding if the use is fair. If the group is watching a factual movie, doesn't charge money for the viewing, and watched the movie for educational or critical analysis, a court would more likely consider the use fair. However, if just for enjoyment and there is no discussion, the court will likely find infringement of the copyright.
Laws vary depending on your location. Even if you violate a copyright law, your intent is still considered. -
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Hi Carl,
All film releases on home moive gauges such as standard 8 ,super 8 and 9.5 all carry a licence for home use only, and this can be found printed on the original box that the film came in. 16mm film was a different story.
It was illegal to trade 16mm, as it was considered a professional gauge being used in some commercial cinemas. We are going back to the days when it was only possible to see a certain movie when it was being screen in a cinema, before the days of video. Super 8 was the only way you could view a movie in your home. The industry didn't consider this a threat, as they were controlling what was being released, and who was going to go to the trouble of duplicating this. But 16mm yes, as new moives were being printed every week onto this gauge to be commercially exhibited, so in the wrong hands there is a problem. If you are going to produce film prints for the home market, you would always copy down from a larger gauge. Making 16mm a no go for collectors. It was a prisonable offence years ago, as I nearly found out.
Things change dramatically when the DVD was introduce and then after Blu ray. Once the movie was released on these new home formats, there was no point for them to worry about copying from film prints.
You would have to be pretty crazy today, to try to pirate a movie from 8mm - 16mm film, when you can purchase the finest copy of it by the till in the supermarket.
There is no problem these days with purchasing films on any gauge, these laws were from a bygone era.
Steve
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Welcome to the Forum Carl. Sure you will get a full comprehensive education and an answer to your questions 😳😳😳😳Comment
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Thank for your reply's everyone, so if i send a dvd to lee mannering and ask him to copy a part of this to 8mm, he obtains the copyright to do so, pays a fee to whoever owns this, he charges me a fee for the small film which then allows me to watch it in my home, and no copyright laws have been broken ?.Comment
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Carl,
Very interesting question! I don't believe Lee accepts those type of orders. Perhaps you'd be interested in the Italian company that does:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/vbb/f...ng-info-please
It is nice to see you posting.Comment
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Steve, 16mm features were available for home use as early as 1937. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_FilmsAll film releases on home moive gauges such as standard 8 ,super 8 and 9.5 all carry a licence for home use only, and this can be found printed on the original box that the film came in. 16mm film was a different story.
You are certainly right about how the introduction of Bluray changed everything. You can buy a Bluray and show it to a paying audience if you have obtained a license to exhibit the movie from the copyright owner.
I doubt a lawyer would agree with that statement. There is a difference between the laws on the books, and which laws are aggressively upheld. The copyright holders who went after people sharing music files on the internet got so much bad publicity from it, that they backed off. It remains illegal to post or download copyrighted material from the internet. They just go after the people hosting illegal content, not the smuck who downloads that content. When web sites are discovered that host links to download illegal content, they are shutdown, even if that web site does not charge for the service. Even YouTube, which had a history of looking the other way when copyrighted material was posted, has gotten pretty aggressive. If YouTube gets 3 DCMA requests in 90 days on copyrighted material you posted, your account and YouTube channel are deleted.... so if i send a dvd to ... copy a part of this to 8mm, he obtains the copyright to do so, pays a fee to whoever owns this, he charges me a fee for the small film which then allows me to watch it in my home, and no copyright laws have been broken ?.
The laws are muddy, and interpretations of the law vary a great deal. The key take away for me is, don't do anything with copyrighted material to make money unless you obtain a license from the copyright holder.
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Ed is right, one very important point that he states "is don't do anything with copyrighted material to make money unless you obtain a license from the copyright holder"
Making "money" that's the key to getting into trouble.
I have posted many you-tube videos that includes copyright material, straight away you-tube will state on your up-load eg "Visibility public" "Restriction Copyright" what that means the copyright holder is ok with it and no restrictions will apply, however the copyright holder can, if the wish can restrict or totally block your video if they want to, but for me that has only been restricted to certain countries, and one of them was showing a Super 8 extract of the Derann release of "The NeverEnding Story"
Paramount and Disney are the two you have to watch, what I do is simply to delete it altogether, but as I say that has only happened twice, but you can find on your your-tube channel the "exact points" that have caused the problem and re-edit the video "take them out" often its the music on the video that can make things a bit sticky with them.
I would say however 99% of the time the copyright holder is fine with it, but if they found you were making money, there is that word again, which I don't with any of it, then they could pull the plug and I don't want that to happen, so keep "money" right out of it, and most of the time with you-tube its fine
. Another good thing with you-tube, is that they have an excellent copyright free audio library, you can download music from it to use in your "own" made videos, only condition, is that you must name the artist and the music number in your credits which is fair enough. 
All up with my own little world on you-tube over the years I think overall my rating with them "it did come up somewhere" has been very good so don't think I will be bumped off anytime soon
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PS This is an example of you-tube stating the up-load was "Restricted copyright" but in saying that, the copyright holder giving the ok to make this film "Visibility public" on you-tube.
Anyway try keeping up with this little lot
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Good morning Carl. Unfortunately I can't help you with making a copy of your dvd film as I have no facility to do so.
Steve. Yes most of our collections have the for home screening only on the box and that includes the more recent imports we have been blessed with globally.
Have a great dayComment
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Graham has it right.Comment
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I do not know what the laws are on this subject in the U.S, but in the U.K. it was illegal to trade 16mm films. I am not talking about 600 ft edited scenes, but entire features.
Even in the early years of Ebay, it was not permitted to sell films over the gauge of 9.5, without being kicked off and made to sign a declaration that you would never do it again.
Back in the mid 80s I was arrested and spent a night in a police cell with comedian Bob Monkhouse, who was also a film collector, just for purchasing a 16mm print!
Only looking back now this was like the scene from French & Saunders silence of the lambs parody. Being lock up with a comedian. We were both let off the following morning with a warning.
I worked for a projection company that was based just off of Wardour street London. One Christmas I decided to do a window display. Dragged out a Fumeo X900 into the window, place the large reels on it with a feature, laced it up and throw a bit of tinsel on it, and went out to do a job. Came back " where's the film gone? " The police came in and had confiscated it.
Apparently there was a special division within the force in the U,K, just for dealing with film. I can't imagine what they would do if this was still applicable today, as I have just seen a 70mm print of Ben Hur for sale on Ebay. Have a fit of the vapors I should imagine.
It is one of the reasons why you get bandsaw prints on 16mm, as you were not allowed to own them.
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And even when they were allowed to sell 16mm Derann lists always had a disclaimer on rights :- "16mm prints are sold with no rights given or implied, for private home use only"Comment
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When I was creating a post here reviewing the Paramount movie The President's Analyst, I created a 12 minute clip from the movie to share on YouTube. As I was uploading the clip the alarms went off before the upload completed. "Danger, Will Robinson!" Youtube warned of copyright violations and high potential to get a take down notice. I thought about taking a chance. After all, my post would just be an ad to go buy the Bluray. I decided it was not worth the bother.Originally posted by Graham Ritchie View Post
That is a great story Steve! I know the laws vary by country, but I thought it was the FBI in the US that were so serious about "film piracy". Another thing I discovered is that a film might be in the Public Domain in the US, but still be copyrighted in another country.I do not know what the laws are on this subject in the U.S, but in the U.K. it was illegal to trade 16mm films. I am not talking about 600 ft edited scenes, but entire features.
Even in the early years of Ebay, it was not permitted to sell films over the gauge of 9.5, without being kicked off and made to sign a declaration that you would never do it again.
Back in the mid 80s I was arrested and spent a night in a police cell with comedian Bob Monkhouse, who was also a film collector, just for purchasing a 16mm print!Comment
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