Japan Airlines Crash

[Ed Gordon]

In other news today:

Boeing wants FAA to exempt MAX 7 from safety rules to get it in the air
Jan. 5, 2024 at 6:00 am Updated Jan. 5, 2024 at 6:00 am
By Dominic Gates
Seattle Times aerospace reporter

Little noticed, days before the holiday break, Boeing petitioned the Federal Aviation Administration for an exemption from key safety standards for the 737 MAX 7 — the still-uncertified smallest member of its newest jet family.

Since August, earlier models of the MAX currently flying passengers in the U.S. have had to limit use of the jet’s engine anti-ice system after Boeing discovered a defect in the system with potentially catastrophic consequences.

The flaw could cause the inlet at the front end of the pod surrounding the engine — known as a nacelle — to break and fall off.

In an August Airworthiness Directive, the FAA stated that debris from such a breakup could penetrate the fuselage, putting passengers seated at windows behind the wings in danger, and could damage the wing or tail of the plane, “which could result in loss of control of the airplane.”

Full article at: https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...it-in-the-air/

[Graham Ritchie]

Bad as it is and thankfully no one was sucked out, had it happened at much higher altitude eg around the 30,000 plus mark, it would have been a different story.

[Paul Adsett]

Really, the MAX seems to be plagued with these potentially catastrophic range of problems. Right now I would feel very uncomfortable if I was boarding one.

[Graham Ritchie]

It will be interesting to hear the outcome. Talking about aircraft I remember closing the front freight door on a ATR72 at the time we first got them. I had to stop motoring it down as it was well out of alignment to the fuselage. Somebody said, just wait till they are on at the rear, right enough , that did the trick. I could not believe the fuselage could bend like a banana from the front to the rear I wonder what it does in flight mmmm. The ATR72 has been sold worldwide for a while now, so I guess the folk that designed it must have got it right, Anyway when I worked on our flying bricks the HS748, those aircraft were built like tanks they really were. I doors were built the same way, with excellent primary and secondary locking systems, plus electrical and visual indication as well. They were impossible to have open on flight. At times I used to work on those doors, good sound engineering had gone into them. I guess that's why the flying brick, continued with "Air North" in Yukon for so many years.

Ah memories there was even a song about them with your truly in the first 30 seconds, that's my tiny bit a fame

PS I remember many a night my boss would say to me how is your ears, which is his way we are going to do cabin pressure runs. Armed with a screw driver I would override the pressure controler and manually close the spill valves a bit at a time while he was running the engines. I would slowly build up the cabin pressure, then take a walk around the cabin checking the indicators and trying the movement of secondary locking, there should be none. If all is well then its back to the right hand seat then again slowly open the spill valves, my boss would say faster, I would no no slowly does it .

Its funny to think back to those times, of long hours, you certainly learned a lot, never through learning, another aircraft that I did tarmac with was a Boeing 757 that was a nice aircraft. On the walk around you look at all the doors, 0nce just before push back I think it was L3. The doors were L meaning left 1 to 4 same on the Right side eg RI,2,3.4. that kind of thing, when looking up L3 just didn.t look right from the outside. I got on the head set and mentioned to the pilots about it. They thanked us for picking it up and contacted the cabin staff to double check that door. My thinking was if you are not sure about something then pass it on, it might be nothing but its best to be sure.

The 757

[Paul Adsett]

Talking of cabin pressure Graham, your story reminds me of an incident i encountered on a trip to the UK. I had chosen to fly US Airways and there was a change in Charlotte North Carolina right before the transatlantic hop. We were all waiting to board and there was a delay. One hour went buy, and we were told there were "mechanical difficulties". Then at the 2 hour delay mark we were told that the cabin pressure valve had failed and a new one had to be fitted, and the pilot was going to have to do a test run to 40,000ft to make sure it was ok! We eventually took off for the UK about 4 hours late!

[Graham Ritchie]

Paul

I always think George Kennedy description of sudden decompression in this film was spot on. The film makers in this Hollywood film really did get it right.

I up-loaded it to you-tube a while back.

[Ed Gordon]

When Alaska flight 1282 blew open, a mom went into ‘go mode’ to protect her son

When the Boeing 737 MAX 9’s side blew out explosively on Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 Friday evening, a 15-year-old high school student was in the window seat in the row directly ahead, his shoulder beside the edge of the gaping hole.

His mother, who was seated beside him, in the middle seat of row 25, described the moment as a very loud bang, like “a bomb exploding.”

As the air in the passenger cabin rushed out, the Oregon woman turned and saw her son’s seat twisting backward toward the hole, his seat headrest ripped off and sucked into the void, her son’s arms jerked upward.

“He and his seat were pulled back and towards the exterior of the plane in the direction of the hole,” she said. “I reached over and grabbed his body and pulled him towards me over the armrest.”

To avoid being inundated with further media calls, the woman, who is in her 50s, a lawyer and a former journalist, asked to be identified only by her middle name, Faye.

“I was probably as filled with adrenaline as I’ve ever been in my life,” Faye said.

“I had my arms underneath his arm, kind of hooked under his shoulders and wrapped around his back,” she continued. “I did not realize until after the flight that his clothing had been torn off of his upper body.”

Full article at: https://www.seattletimes.com/busines...ht-to-her-son/

[Paul Adsett]

That seat next to the blown out panel was actually sold, but the buyer missed the flight!!!!!😲
Now we hear about loose mounting bolts on several other inspected MAX 9's and metal stops sheared off at the frame of the panel that blew out. And there is going to be a congressional hearing in February on the situation at Boeing. Sounds to me like they have major design and quality control issues on their hands.

[Mike Newell]

A very serious design problem Paul.

The recent Ethiopian flight that crashed in 2019 was a Boeing 737.

What happened to the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302?
Flight 302 crashed shortly after takeoff from Addis Ababa Bole Airport on 10 March 2019. Operated by Boeing 737-8 MAX ET-AVJ, it was the second crash of a 737 MAX in just over four months and led to a worldwide 20 month grounding of the MAX while Boeing and regulators made changes to the aircraft.

The earlier Malaysian flight that disappeared in 2014 was a Boeing 777

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (MH370/MAS370)^[a] was an international passenger flight operated by Malaysia Airlines that disappeared from radar on 8 March 2014 while flying from Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia to its planned destination, Beijing Capital International Airport in China.^[1] The reason for the disappearance has not been conclusively determined.

The crew of the Boeing 777-200ER, registered as 9M-MRO, last communicated with air traffic control (ATC

[Graham Ritchie]

This tragic story and a family journey to find out the truth of of not just a failure of the weak Boeing 747 door design from day one of the secondary locking every one should watch. Its truly alarming that this design flaw on all 747 aircraft had never been picked up, until the family of one of the victims on the United Airlines not only looked into it, but proved the total weakness of the secondary locking system of those doors.

[Ed Gordon]

The Boeing company has major problems. Even if authorities allow the new "Max" model to fly again, I think the public has had their fill of excuses and explanations from Boeing. I, for one, would never fly on one.

[Mike Newell]

Public have short memories. You rarely know what type of plane you are flying in until you are embarking. It is really a choice between Boeing and Airbus to be honest.

Maybe bring your own parachute. Least the door is open for your exit.

[Ed Gordon]

Maybe bring your own parachute. Least the door is open for your exit.

There would be a fee to bring your own parachute.

They may very well start giving all passengers a free life insurance policy. The accountants have determined that it would be less expensive than building a safe airplane. "Safety? We don't need more safety. More profits! That is what we need."

[Paul Adsett]

I think I read somewhere, that to save money when they designed the 737 MAX, they basically extended the length of the fuselage and put in bigger engines. This resulted in a change in center of gravity and created an aircraft that is inherently unstable, and which relies on its computer system to continually maintain in- flight stability. That was what the original two crashes were all about - once the computers were disabled there was no way that the pilots could manually maintain flight stability, This door fiasco seems to indicate that some of the lessons learned over the past 70 years of commercial jet aircraft design has been lost on the (probably) new generation of designers. For them to have designed in a defective door panel, after all the history of door failures on 747's and DC10's etc, is just mind boggling.
The original 737 has a stellar safety record. The new 737 MAX is shaping up to be a real boondoggle.

[Graham Ritchie]

Paul

Your comment regarding the original 737 reminded me of another, and sadly passed away member of the Heritage Society that I am a member, in fact he dragged me into joining. This chap had worked in a aircraft research establishment in England for many years before coming to NZ. He was the manager of the aero club who at the time gave me a job there back in the 70s, but later left to be a air accident investigator. Long retired he told me years ago at Ferrymead, that the the original design of the 737 was being pushed to far with the installation of the larger engines.

Basically he stated at the time, and had reservations that the aircraft was never designed for it, better to build a new one was his view, looking back he was right.