That hoary subject again . Film fade !

[David Hardy]

I found the colour print and picture quality a bit questionable on some of those Super 8mm MGM / FOX Ken films releases . Even though they got good reviews in some of the magazines . They were inclined to be a bit flat looking on the colours or the flesh tones were over rich or sunburnt and they could be very grainy at times and not in a good way .

[Osi Osgood]

Exactly, Dave! Especially considering that the mainstream studios were putting out a lot of these by they're own super 8 companies with they're own "pristine" studio negatives, (Fox, MGM, Universal ect), it's amazing as to how poor some of the releases were. The edits/digest could be pretty good at times ( and sometimes downright poor as well ), the print quality was often marginal at best. I think part of this may have been taking it making a negative from originally scope films, in some cases, and coming in on a 16mm print in scope, for instance for the super 8 negative. I've noticed that most of the non scope, pre scope films, the image quality was OK, but ones taken from originally scope films were not. Even then, however, the image could just be questionable.

[Douglas Meltzer]

Ii's difficult to make a blanket statement about the print quality of 1970s & 1980s releases since it really depended on the lab that was involved. The amount of fade and the size of the grain vary widely in prints of the same title that are from different labs.

[Paul Adsett]

This thread should be titled The Heartbreak of Color Fade, because that is exactly what it is. Just about all my digests that I purchased in the 70's and 80's are now totally red, and all you can think when projecting them is how glorious they were when new.
Its time for me to trash most of them but I still find myself unable to do it. The sound tracks are like new and there is still some interest attached to them, if only the boxes! Some I will never throw away, unless the image totally fades away. But its all heartbreaking when I think what my collection could be like today if Kodak had got their act together earlier.

[Ken Finch]

These prints are at least 50 years old. One wonders if Kodak or any other film manufacturing company would have anticipated this would happen. The same thing has happened to Gevercolour reversal film I purchased in the 1960s. It was fine up to 5 years ago. It is sad for those who still collect cine films but that’s life!

[Osi Osgood]

Yes, I feel that the intelligent choice of action, concerning our precious prints, is to take action now, to avoid the no doubt inescapable possibility of film fade, by doing our best to store ourfilms in the best possible circumstances, ahead of any fade, so that our prints will exist and be quite colorful for at least as long as we are alive, (at 58, I am planning on enjoying them for another 40 years?), and, perhaps, beyond? I am like a lot of people. Since we have seen LPP and Agfa, (as a general rule), still maintaining brilliant color to this day, we have just taken for granted that the color will remain so, but I think that ALL color prints need to be stored, as the "Traveling Wilburys" sang, "Store it in a Cool Dry Place"! Now, black and white prints, on actual black and white film stock? Eh! Just lubricate them occasionally!

[Brian Fretwell]

Ii's difficult to make a blanket statement about the print quality of 1970s & 1980s releases since it really depended on the lab that was involved. The amount of fade and the size of the grain vary widely in prints of the same title that are from different labs.

Yes, I'm pretty sure some labs were sent (or made) duplicate negatives from the printing negatives others used. It is said that Mountain flims even edited down from US ngatives and made dupes to print from, leading reviewers to reccomend getting imported prints rather than the UK ones.

[Osi Osgood]

That was definitely the case with the UK distributor of the 400ft Flintstones. The US versions are a very full 400ft, about 20 minutes long, but the UK versions are 15 minutes at best! A good 4 or more minutes, and it's not just "The Flintstone Flyer", but other 400ft Flintstones UK titles

[Rob Young]

Comparing the original Ken 400ft Star Wars with full frame and sharp grain with the Mountain UK prints with soft top and bottom masking and soft, slightly bouncy image quality is a good example.

Sadly, all pink now.

I think Ken has a point though; no one thought that us looneys would still be watching these prints 50 years on!

Still a shame though, especially when you see that many Walton releases of the same era retain great colour.

I remember reading about faded 16mm prints in the mid-90's and how it was bound to happen to our 8mm prints. Of course we hoped for the best, but the blue waters in Jaws, or the shiny cylons, bathed in deep blue light in Battlestar Galactica are all now Barbie pink.

Personally, I find them hard to watch now.

Sad, as Ken says, that's life.

I find I amuse myself when I run say, a Derann Disney and marvel at the lovely blues...never even gave it a thought 30 years ago!!

[Osi Osgood]

Derann was such a "salvation" for so many other companies prints! At many times, where the source company would print on faded Eastman, when Derann would reprint, they would so on LPP or Agfa! Often, the Derann print would be better overall, due to they're use of better film labs.

[David Hardy]

When i was still employed in the business at the Rank Odeon Cinema as a projectionist in the 1980's i remember hearing then about 35mm and 16mm prints starting to fade . Yet in spite of all these facts brand new Super 8mm prints were still being released and sold to the public on certain film stocks they just knew was going to fade in time .

[Kim Trampus]

I agree with you David. I can't watch badly faded color prints. I have weeded out my collection and have mostly old black and white prints.

[Osi Osgood]

The only time I keep a faded red print, is when I am just holding onto it until I can find a decent color print of the same title, which can be quite difficult, especially when a whole print run may all be on quick fade Eastman, and so your only option is to hopefully find a print that has been stored in the best possible circumstances. Many optical sound prints fall into this category. It took years for me to find a decent color print of the 1975 feature " Conduct Unbecoming". While the color is not absolute vintage and may never have been, the letterboxing is jet black, and so the color may not have been all that great to begin with. Therefore, on that print, I can be satisfied.