8mm Forum: Bolex 18-5 standard, speed problem

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Topic: Bolex 18-5 standard, speed problem

Pekka Tervahartiala
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Sep 2011

posted September 16, 2011 03:55 PM

My Paillard Bolex 18-5 projector, the old model with flat belt, runs a little bit too slow. The belt is replaced with two o-rings and that replacement runs OK. My opinion is that the motor is running too slow - I suppose the speed of the film is about 14 frames/sec.
In the cooling air inlet house there is an equipment / contactor, which I presume has something to do with the speed regulation. On the air inlet house there are four chokes and around the motor there are 3 condensators. I think they have also something to do with the speed, not only for removal of radio disturbanses.

Could somebody help me with the speed correction?

Br, Pekka

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Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted September 17, 2011 01:52 AM

Is your voltage set correctly? You can see it in the little window above the selector switch. Take the cover off to adjust it.

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Pekka Tervahartiala
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Sep 2011

posted September 17, 2011 12:42 PM

We have here 230V. Bolex has two possibilities to choose in this case: 220V or 240V. The change between 220V and 240V does not have any impact on the speed of the film.
The frequency of the voltage is 50Hz and this Bolex is for 50Hz.

There is a speed regulating mechanism depending on the centrifugal force of the weights located in the fan. I'm wondering, how this mechanism can be adjusted?

Greetings,

Pekka

--------------------
Pekka

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Bryan Chernick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Bothell, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2010

posted September 17, 2011 03:41 PM

If there is old hardened grease on the gears that may cause it to run slow as well. I usually clean off as much of that grease as I can and put white lithium grease on the teeth of the gears. I also put a little sewing machine oil on the shafts. I would try that first.

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Pekka Tervahartiala
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Sep 2011

posted September 17, 2011 04:13 PM

As I described, there is a system controlling the speed. It is independent of friction - the oiling or greasing does not help in this matter.

My question is, how to adjust the speed regulating system?
The owners manual is useless as it does not contain deeper technical information.
A service manual would be of great help.

Br.
Pekka

--------------------
Pekka

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted September 22, 2011 04:32 PM

The service manual is useless also. I'm not certain that the speed was meant to be adjusted by the end user.

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Pekka Tervahartiala
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Sep 2011

posted September 23, 2011 02:42 PM

I´m of the same opinion that the speed control is not meant to be adjusted by the user.
My Bolex -bought from ebay- seems to have been an object of a more innominate than able hobbyist and therefore the setting is different. The metal frame, holding the regulating contact has been bent. Now, after straightening and experimentally adjusting the position of the contacts, the speed problem is not anymore annoying.

Another problem is, that one of the 3 weights in the rotating frame is missing and I had to tie the blades of the frame in open position in order to get normal amount of light to the film when running 18 frames/sec.
I wonder if I could get such a weight from somewhere?

With autumn regards from rainy Helsinki,

Pekka

--------------------
Pekka

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted September 27, 2011 02:28 PM

How are the weights attached?

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Kostis Karakiolis
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Larissa Greece
Registered: Oct 2011

posted October 07, 2011 10:08 AM

Hello there!

I am trying to make one of this fine projectors work but i am having three issues:

1. The variable shutter is not working. It is either stuck on three blades or stuck at nine blades. The centrifugal weights are there but they are not functioning so as to have nine blades at slow speed (5 fps) and three blades at normal speed (18 fps). I sometimes manage to adjust them by hand in one of the two positions. I have greased and oiled everything. Can anyone propose a solution?

2. It is a bit difficult to spin the shutter wheel. The belts are spinning without moving the shutter wheel if i go with 18 fps and if i go with 5 fps it only manages to start with a help from my hands. I have greased and oiled everything. Can anyone propose a solution?

3. I accidentaly broke the screw that is located in the red circle in this photo. It holds a disc with 4 holes and 2 small balls. It seems to work like a tension adjuster. Does anyone know how it works and what it does?

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted October 07, 2011 11:40 AM

The variable shutter works dependent on speed. If the belt is slipping, you are not obtaining corrects speeds. From your picture, it appears you have the old design pulleys that used one flat belt, but you have an "O" ring belt on the pulleys. The later design uses three belts where you just have the one. The three original belts where a sort of "V" belt design, but are now commonly replaced with 3 round "O" ring belts. The new replacements work fine, but there are 3 of them. I think the one that you are utilizing is slipping to much. See if you can get 2 slightly smaller belts. It might work. Hardware stores sell the belts. They are actually just "o" rings.

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Kostis Karakiolis
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Larissa Greece
Registered: Oct 2011

posted October 07, 2011 01:25 PM

Thank you Barry for the very prompt answer!

I posted the previous message while i was @ work and didn't have access to my projector so I used a photo of another projector. My projector is this:

So you can see that it is the version with the three belts. It has 3 V-belts installed. The belts seem to work fine but something jammed on the shutter wheel i think makes the wheel so difficult to turn that the torque required exceeds the belts' ability. I can still move the wheel with my hands. You can see the belts here:

Yesterday I managed to see a 50 foot reel in 5 fps always by assisting the revolution from the front knob. In 18 fps the belt is impossible to move the shutter wheel.

Concerning the accidentally broken screw that holds a disc with 4 holes and 2 small balls it is indeed a tension adjuster. It adjusts the claw that advances each frame. Below is the place where the adjusting plate was initially:

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Pekka Tervahartiala
Junior
Posts: 5
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: Sep 2011

posted October 07, 2011 02:11 PM

The projector of Mr. Karakiolis seems to function with three O-rings. In the picture there is only one ring and therefore the power of the motor is not transported propperly.
The older version with flat belt has another type of the motor pulley as seen in the picture taken of my Bolex (serial n:o 1 324 780).
The flat belt was impossible to find and I repaced it with two O-rings (diam. 38,0mm, thickness 3,0mm; ~2€/ring). I moved the motor pulley about 2mm outwards and the rings, now removed and visible in the back ground, are staying reliably on the right position.

The answer for the question 3. might be found in an earlier topic with nice pictures: http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005702

Autumn regards,
Pekka

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Pekka

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Kostis Karakiolis
Junior
Posts: 3
From: Larissa Greece
Registered: Oct 2011

posted October 07, 2011 02:37 PM

quote:
In the picture there is only one ring and therefore the power of the motor is not transported propperly.

As I explained earlier the photo on the first is not a photo of my projector. The photo of my projector can be seen in my second post where one can clearly see three belts. Anyway I will replace the belts just to be sure.

Concerning question three, i will have to thank Mr. Pekka Tervahartiala for pointing out the topic with the pictures. Now everything becomes clearer concerning that screw.

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