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Author Topic: Airline print was stil made until 1987 ! (or ?)
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 07, 2005 09:29 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I found this item on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6422037160&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

He is selling a print of full feature 8mm James Bond's "Living in the Daylight". Everbody knows that this film was released in 1987. On his description it was written that the film is in Spanish.

I asked the seller how could the film is in Spanish, since only Derann and CFC who are still in 8mm Business, so either English or German sound.

He then replied:
quote:
the film was made for Buenes Aires airlines.
Not sure who struck the print

In a message dated 8/7/05 7:28:30 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
member@ebay.com writes:

So does it mean some airline companies in Latin America still use 8mm around that era (1987-1990)??

Want to know what other people's say.

Bye

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Winbert

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Ortona, Italy
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 - posted August 07, 2005 10:03 AM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't know about the print, but I'm sure the film was released theatrically in 1984, not in 1987.

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Maurizio

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted August 07, 2005 10:14 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, according to IMDB "Living of daylight" was released in 1987. Please open this URL: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093428/combined.

Still getting from IMDB, in 1983 was "Octopussy" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086034/combined
and in 1985 was "A view to A Kill" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090264/combined. Both are still Roger Moore.

As far as I remember in 1986, it was alreasy marketed a video projection the so-called "Barco Vision" (three lense). And it sounds funny for me if the Airline in Latin America still used the 8mm projector in 1987. Moreover, in other threads it say that Airline prints were last to be used in the beginning 1980s.

Bye.

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Winbert

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted August 07, 2005 11:37 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Since the print is in Spanish, and Latin American airlines continued to use film projectors onboard even after video projectors became available... it seems to me that it was simply a question of cost at the time for them (upgrading was too expensive). I'm not saying they didn't have the kind of money that US or UK (or other) airlines had - because 1. I don't know that and 2. it would be a bit too stereotypical to make that statement [Eek!] - just saying that while some airlines jumped onto video projection, some others probably just waited longer.

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Eberhard Nuffer
Expert Film Handler

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From: Stuttgart, Germany
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 - posted August 07, 2005 11:44 AM      Profile for Eberhard Nuffer   Email Eberhard Nuffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hubert,

I do have an airline print of "A Fish Called Wanda" which - according to IMDB - was made in 1988 (by the way: Its colours hold up very well!). Mel Brooks' "Spaceballs", released in 1987, was also available as airline print, as was "Lethal Weapon" (1987). It seems that airline prints with English sound were made at least until 1990. The last airline prints I know about were "Beetlejuice" (1988) and "The Hunt for Red October" (1990, w. Sean Connery) which both became available through Cinema Entertainment Company (C.E.C.) in Great Britain.

Kind regards,

Eberhard

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Maurizio Di Cintio
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From: Ortona, Italy
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 - posted August 07, 2005 02:10 PM      Profile for Maurizio Di Cintio     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, Winbert, I confused Living Daylights with A viw to A Kill.

From the other replies, I find this topic very interesting: I really did not imagine airline prints had been around as recently as the late 1980's.
It would be also interesting to know what projectors airline would use. Maybe Elmo GS 1200? Probably a machine with twin track capability in order to accomodate two different language versions? Anybody knows?

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Maurizio

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 07, 2005 02:25 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is really good news! I knew that it went up to at least "A Fish Called Wanda" But I had no idea that it went up as far as "Hunt for Red October" (Boy! I'd love to find a print of that!) Which means that there is the potential of finding two more years of film releases on optical sound super 8! I've always felt that optical sound super 8 is the "bastard child" so to speak, of super 8, and I still hope to make a web page dedicated to the optical sound print. In many ways, I've found the optical sound prints to be of a much higher quality than almost anything put out by anybody, (except Derann's Disney's of course) Lower grade film stocks not withstanding.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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 - posted August 07, 2005 03:13 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm. But is the optical sound itself that good, too? I've not actually had a chance to hear super-8 optical sound for myself (only 16mm optical, which actually sounds fabulous). I'm rather spoiled by the quality of magnetic soundtracks.

And no, there wouldn't have been any twin-track airline projectors, since super-8 optical only has room for one sound track. I seriously doubt they went as far as squeezing another optical track next to the sprocket holes, and if there ever was such a thing as an optical-sound film with a magnetic balance stripe - thus having mixed opt/mag sound - then that's what I'd call a bastard child [Big Grin]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Andreas Eggeling
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 - posted August 07, 2005 04:19 PM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
.... long long long time ago I think it was in the middle of 80´s, when "Name of the Rose" came in theaters, I saw a short documentary on German Television about a division company or a department of LUFTHANSA that they editing films (Name of the Rose) for programme in LUFTHANSA airplanes .....

... end of the 80´s I got an advertisement reel. It was from Lufthansa with magnetic sound.

.... I have a french feature with magnetic soundtrack with english and german sound .... the seller told me that it was a airline print ...

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted August 07, 2005 05:32 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Amazing! I just never stop learning around here! [Eek!] [Cool]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Winbert Hutahaean
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From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
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 - posted August 08, 2005 05:15 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
And no, there wouldn't have been any twin-track airline projectors, since super-8 optical only has room for one sound track. I seriously doubt they went as far as squeezing another optical track next to the sprocket holes,
Jan,
Mike has ever quoted from the Magazine Film for the Collector which specifically mention that Optical Airline prints have 2 track. Here I quote again

quote:
If you compare an 8mm Optical Print made in the UK against an American print, you will note that the optical track is almost pure black and white, whereas the track on a British print is dark blue. This results in the British track giving a lower level of volume and certainly more track noise, hiss and plops. Rank would never give any reason for not coating the optical tracks on 8mm prints. I hasten to add, that all 16mm prints made by the lab at the lab at that time, were coated to give optimum performances. One can only assume that in their opinion, 8mm was just not important enough for them to provide this extra service.

I was then told that a lot of the prints carried multi-tracks; the main track always being in English. But, on some prints there was another track, just on the edge of the sprocket holes, much like the balance track on a magnetic print, and this track was mostly French, German or Spanish.

Thanks

 -
 -

[ June 07, 2014, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Winbert Hutahaean ]

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Winbert

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Jan Bister
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From: Ohio, USA
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 - posted August 08, 2005 08:15 AM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They actually did this!? Maybe I need to just keep my mouth shut. [Eek!] [Big Grin]

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2005 11:14 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The soundtrack is the only let down when it comes to optical sound super 8. Especially with the British releases, which have high points for sharpness, but, as the article says, "more plops and hisses"., which is true.

Most of the american releases have good booming sound, but a lot of that can also be due to assorted machines. My Copal has very low optical sound output, while my Yashica has louder sound and more "bottom"to the soundtrack. I'd love t get one of those GS1200D mag/optic super 8's, as I'm sure it would be the creme ala creme of optical sound.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted August 08, 2005 11:36 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me the biggest draw back of these opticl prints is the fact they are edited for family viewing [Mad] .
Films should be left the way the director intented. A pity as many opticle prints are good titles. I.E Lethal weapon. I'd hate to think of how that now looks with the lingo being edited [Frown]

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Andreas Eggeling
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 - posted August 08, 2005 12:01 PM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
... I bought different Elmos and a Revue (made in Japan)and I was always disappointed with the optical sound .....

... Few months ago I got a Bolex with stunning optical sound ...
if one of my projectors should get the label "Intercarrier noise suppressor" then I would give it the Bolex machine.

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 08, 2005 03:18 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I like the fact that in some cases they were edited were language. Not everyone is as well edited, though. "Yellowbeard" has a little female upper body nudity, for instance, and films like, "Tender Mercies" have s**t edited out, but still have godammit in them.
But then, they had to be careful, as you never knew whether children would be in first class listening to these films, and in most (but not all cases) the profanities were not important to the story framework. As a scriptwriter myself, I feel lots of profanities and nudity are merely a crutch to appeal to the lowest common intellect and show a lack of creativity. Besides, it's not the first time that films have been edited in super 8
(Now there's a DUH!! issue). It's always seemed strange that people who have been brought up on "digests" for years, would have a problem with some editing.
Occasionally it does make a difference. I watched "48 Hours" on TV, (edited) and the words they used instead of the original profanities were not good choices, and took a lot of humour out of some otherwise very funny scenes.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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 - posted August 08, 2005 10:40 PM      Profile for Jan Bister   Email Jan Bister   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I kinda have to side with Tom - there's a world of difference between a full-length print with some profanities and risque scenes edited/cut short, and an actual digest, which is more of a summary of the entire film (and is taken as such). I like digests that are well done... but on the other hand, if I watch a full-length print I want to see it unedited, untouched and in its virgin state (so to speak). It's a matter of principle, I guess, but also has to do with the fact that some of the full-feature edits come across as downright annoying and/or end up disappointing the viewer because he/she finds that his/her favorite scene in the entire film was butchered for nothing more than political correctness. [Frown]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 09, 2005 11:30 AM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with both points, actually. I have a print of Superman 3 on optical, and ne little scene was completely cut: Clark Kent is at the bowling alley and when his girlfriend has her back turned, he uses his "super-breath" (hopefully, he hasn't eaten onions!) to cause the pins to go down, but actually completely shatters them! I thought it was about the funniest moment in the film. True, the scene didn't actually continue the plot in anyway, but I miss it, just the same.

As I had stated at an earlier time, I've found that the English versions, (because, I believe the same movies were sent out at times by both american and UK printers), and the UK versions will be longer, due to less severe editing. My UK print of "Island of Dr. Moreauh" (didn't spell that right), has a whole subplot involving Barbera Carrera (drool), that has no nudity, just sugstive, which is completely missing from the American print that I had, and comprised about 6 minutes!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted August 09, 2005 11:45 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
here, nothing wrong with a bit cotch or tit, you dont need to be of low intellect to enjoy the view in a movie. thats why they have certificates,in fact, i'd say UK is much more sensible than the US on this. Here a film with sex and nudity is generally either a 15 (for light adult theme) and an 18 for full sex or violence. In the states i'm always gobsmacked to see that and R restricted means you can see it if your under 17 but must have accompanying adult or gaurdian. Weird.

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 09, 2005 12:46 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's America for you, hippocritical and weird. Oh well! I love er!!

(Assorted flag waving, ect.)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted August 09, 2005 02:08 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If im honest, so do i. I'd rather be on the US side than Europe. Europe has too many crooked euro MP's that we pay for, and aside from Derann and Walton, some of the very best in super 8 releases came from the States. Thats got to be top of our agenda [Big Grin]

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Osi Osgood
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 - posted August 09, 2005 02:52 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wouldn't you love to see some rich guy over here in the states who has lots of money to throw around, start producing super 8 film prints again? I mean, the actual film labs and equipment no doubt still exist and I bet whoever would start it up again could get most of the equipment for a song! Besides, it might be even easier to get studio film prints for american super 8 producers from american companies, but what do I know? (duuuuuh)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Andreas Eggeling
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 - posted November 17, 2005 05:20 PM      Profile for Andreas Eggeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
... refering to the Star Trek IV print I just found out that the final reel has a optical sound track on the edge of the sprocket holes too, but I can´t play it. The normal track is in spanish....

Andreas

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Kevin Faulkner
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 - posted November 17, 2005 05:44 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
While we are on this topic of optical sound in a big way here I would like to add that some of the best optical tracks I have heard are on some of the German releases which were mainly shorts. I did have a print many years ago called "DB" about the German railways and the sound was really superb. I have a print called " Rheinfahrt" and the sound is wonderful as is a copy of Disneys Bambi and Herbie Rides again.
Tom sold me a French Film Office print of Chaplins Adventurer which is on balck and white acetate stock and the music track beats a lot of mag tracks.....so yes optical sound if done right could be very good and if the projector in question is set up really well. Film Office and Geyer of Germany produced a lot of super 8 optical shorts all with the lighter blue track which certainly have a high output on my GS.
I dont think it's the lightness of the blue track which gives the higher or lower output but the overall modulation of the track. I have heard one or two optical prints with overmodulation which sound distorted and I think this is the reason why Rank prints were slightly lower in output...errrring on the side of caution.
I think that most of the later optical airline prints were being produced in the US and certainly anything produced after 1982 will be on LPP and wont be fading.
I have to say though that this thing about the optical track down the sprocket hole side for an extra language is news to me.
Can anyone with a print like this scan a small section of the film so we can all see this for ourselves. Andreas?
I wonder what machines they played on?......presumably the B&H/Technicolor units?

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tom Photiou
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 - posted November 18, 2005 11:45 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
& if anyone wished to indulge in a good feature print of Crocodile Dundee please visit my bit on films for sale, [Big Grin] [Wink]
The price is open to sensible offers, have to say tho that to send it abroad appears to add quite a bit onto the price unfortunatly, it is open to sensible offers and is a very good print in very good condition.

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