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Author
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Topic: The (rare) early horror genre
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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted February 14, 2009 05:15 AM
I have been wondering where I should look next, to add to my somewhat limited collection of this genre.
Some may laugh at the fact that I only have 4 films thus far, but the titles should give some indication of where I'm coming from.
The Cabinet of Dr Caligari (standard 8 silent)
Dr Mabuse (standard 8 silent)
Nosferatu (16mm silent)
Metropolis (16mm silent) - awaiting delivery
It's not so much the Hitchcock or Edgar Allen Poe, but the Fritz Langs and similar of this world that I'm more interested in.
The four I already have are of excellent print quality, so if anyone has any ideas regarding titles etc. which would fit right in with the above, I'd be very grateful.
Many thanks,
Cheers,
--------------------
Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted February 14, 2009 05:51 AM
Hi Steven,
I just checked out the synopsis on imdb, and you're right, - it would fit right in to my collection. The 1915, 1920 or even the 1936 sound version would be fine.
However, I have also just looked at CHC's current list on their website, and I can't see it. I guess maybe it's already sold.
Still. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the tip.
Best,
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Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler
Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted February 14, 2009 08:43 AM
Hi David,
You are clearly interested in a wider range of films than just horror. I wouldn't call any of the Fritz Lang films horror, but he was clearly intrigued by mastercriminals (like in the fantastic Dr. Mabuse). There are more Lang films out there. I have an 8mm print of 'Destiny' (Der Muede Tod) and 8mm prints of both episodes of 'The Nibelungen' (I had them on the table in Ealing last May, but now I am in two minds about selling them). Paul Foster had a 16mm print of 'Woman in the Moon' on his list a couple of months ago. I was a bit cash strapped back then, so didn't get it (and now regret it...). There was a S8 print (Blackhawk) of 'Spies' (Spione) on the US Ebay recently (might still be there; also a fantastic film!). A couple of years ago I saw two German Louise Brooks films (8mm) offered somewhere (probably "Pandora's Box" and "Diary of a lost girl"); well worth getting if you see them somewhere.
To get it back to horror, Jean-Marc's suggestion 'Vampyr' is a great one. It pops up on 16mm every now and then. Never seen any mention of (S)8mm prints. For American films, think about Paul Leni's "The cat and the canary" (big influence on the later 'haunted house films') (also try to find his German film "Waxworks" (Das Wachsfigurencabinet). Both these are available on 8mm (I still have a print of Waxworks; It is for sale for pennies; Image quality is quite poor, but I'm not sure if better prints are available;)
Not exactly horror, but often weird and also full of criminal masterminds are the films with Lon Chaney. "The Monster" is comedy/horror. I used to have an 8mm print, but no more. "The Unknown" is an absolutely fantastic bizarre film. Some 16mm prints are floating around, but they are rare (I would give both my arms for a print....). Most of his existing films were issued by Blackhawk on 8mm, S8 and/or 16mm at some point. Prints of "Phantom of the Opera" are common.
"Jeckyl and Hyde" is also a good exampleof early horror and prints pop up every now and then.
Since most of the examples you gave are from the German expressionist era, I would recommend reading a couple of books. The best one is probably Lotte Eisner's "The Haunted Screen" (Die Daemonische Leinwand), with lots of stills from films as well. Another good one (although much more dry and academic) is "From Caligari to Hitler", which tries to relate the German cinema of the teens, twenties and early thirties to the politics and the mood in Germany around that time.
I'm no big fan of dvd's, but for films from this era, things are a bit different. For a lot of films, better elements have been found since the (S)8mm and 16mm prints were issued. Many of the dvd's look stunning and have often very interesting background material as extra's. Having said that. I had this fairly poor print of "Waxworks" and a much, much better version on DVD, but for some reason I enjoy the 8mm print a lot more!
As 'M' is an early sound film. There is alot more to be found there. A lot of the German directors (and cinematographers) left Germany in the late twenties and in the thirties. They made some great atmospheric stuff there as well. Last year I picked up a 16mm print of Carl Freund's "Mad Love". Another straight decendent of the German expressionists. The influence is felt for much longer than that. Film Noir is often thought to be heavily influenced by the stuff you mention. I have a 16mm copy of "The Night of the Hunter" (1957) and I wouldn't hesitate one moment to put that film in a double bill with a German film from the twenties!
Anyway, much to enjoy there. Track down a copy of the Eisner book (Ebay or a site like abebooks.com ar good sources) to find some references to other titles.
- Rob
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted February 14, 2009 04:39 PM
It is VERY RARE and extremely hard to find, (I bought the one and only print of this that I saw on ebay once and never seen again), but another early horror film, shot as a silent, but released as a sound film from Germany, much in the line with Salvador Dali's expressionistic experimental films, was ...
"VAMPYR" (1930 OR 31, not sure)
It was released on standard 8mm, silent (possibly Super 8 as well), on 3X400ft reels. The print quality was pretty good, considering that nearly all prints (until recently) in all formats was fairly awful.
It is a rare horror film that is truly surreal and has some wonderful special effect tricks, (film reversed to show person undigging grave and shovels of dirt going back, or a live person staying one spot and the shadow departing, for instance)
Well worth getting!
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted February 16, 2009 06:32 AM
Hey all you guys who have responded so eloquently; many thanks for your contributions and suggestions. There is certainly a lot to look out for there.
Rob, you are right. I think perhaps the word 'horror' might have been a bit narrow. However, all the films mentioned, not only by myself, but by everyone else, do fall into some kind of category I'm sure, but I can't think what it might be!
...Surreal, expressionist, dark, or whatever...might cover this particular range of films.
My other interests are of course, American railway and westerns, but I think everyone on the Forum knows that by now.
Now comes the business of trying to track down some of those titles. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Cheers,
--------------------
Dave.
Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!
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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted October 07, 2012 03:17 AM
I haven't seen a lot of posts talking about Thunderbird Films, but they had a huge catalog when I was buying new stuff in the early 80's.
All PD stuff, and from what I could tell, made-to order. I had a rather disappointing print of Caligari from them. Griggs and Blackhawk seemed to have the only good ones, visually, but my Griggs print had bad sound, and a lot of vertical lines right out of the box, and Blackhawk was no longer selling Super 8 prints of Caligari when I started collecting.
My Horror Sci-fi collection was basically this,
CABINET OF DR. CALIGARI (first Niles silent C-, then Griggs Moviedrome B- then Thuderbird C0
NOSFERATU (Blackhawk)
THE GOLEM (Griggs Moviedrome B+)
THE LOST WORLD (Niles C)
HAXAN (NILES C)
CAT AND THE CANARY - tinted (I forget who but a sold B+)
PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (GRIGGS A)
METROPOLIS (Niles D, Griggs A)
DIE NIEBLUNGEN (Blackhawk A)
UN CHIEN ANDALOU (Reel Images B+)
FAUST (Blackhawk A)
VAMPYR (Thunderbird B-)
THE MONSTER WALKS (Blackhawk B+)
WHITE ZOMBIE (Niles B)
THE CAT PEOPLE (Nostalgia Merchant B)
THE SPIRAL STAIRCASE (ABC Films B+)
DAUGHTER OF HORROR (B+ Thunderbird)
HORROR OF DRACULA (DERANN A)
DIABOLIQUE (unknown B-)
HORROR HOTEL (unknown B)
DEMENTIA 13 (B- Reel Images)
ROSEMARY"S BABY (Unknown A)
NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (Niles C+, Red Fox B)
VAMPIRE CIRCUS (Derann A+)
WITCHFINDER GENERAL (Walton A)
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO AUNT ALICE? (ABC Features B+)
POLTERGEIST (MGM/Red Fox A-)
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Timothy Ramzyk
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 220
From: Milwaukee,WI,USA
Registered: Nov 2006
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posted October 08, 2012 03:43 PM
I honestly don't think anything can touch the Criterion DVD on 8mm or 16mm, the French M2K disk is based on the same restoration with no English subtitles, as is the British Masters Of Cinema DVD, but Criterion went a little further on clean-up, and did a graphic-match on the German text with translated English ones, and kept the English-insert version optional. I assume TCM showed that?
I'm something of a VAMPYR fanatic, ever since I bought a Super 8 print nearly three decades ago, and I bought every conceivable version since.
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