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Author
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Topic: Open Gate Super 8 prints.
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 09, 2019 03:33 AM
This relates to Burton's review of his fabulous Fugitive print, but I thought I'd start it as a new topic.
Osi was questioning the picture ratio, as this print was produced open gate.
A lot of flat super 8 features were printed from open gate 35mm origins, so there is picture area top and bottom which really should be masked off.
Projector gates in cinemas would mask the 35mm image to 1.85:1, cropping off the top and bottom.
Some 35mm prints were printed hard masked, which meant that black bars were printed top and bottom of frame.
So, on an open gate super 8 print, you do have the risk of seeing mics in shot, etc. as this area of picture was not supposed to be seen on screen.
One simple fix is to mask your screen top and bottom with black velvet to give a 1.85:1 ratio. Then zoom the image out so that the top and bottom is projected onto the velvet. This absorbs much of the light and gives you a genuine 1.85:1 cinematic image, with no anomalies creeping into frame.
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Osi Osgood
Film God
Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted July 09, 2019 11:16 AM
Rob!
What a wonderful topic! I had forgotten about that term, "open gate". Glad to know it again!
Sometimes in films, there will be multiple ratios on one print. My optical super 8 print of "People That Time Forgot" has at least, three separate aspect ratios, one, the "open gate", two, letterboxed or masked shots, and i think there is at least one or two instances where it is "in between", 9I might be wrong about that third one.
I have heard that this is also common in films with lots of special effects shots. Different elements added together and then, a "hard mask' in order to have the whole bloody thing the same ratio! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 09, 2019 02:30 PM
Paul, there’s still a lot to be praised about CRT quality.
Yep, the super 8 Predator is open gate. Not too many issues, but you do see the word VIDEO in some of the Predator POV shots, which is from the effects house that made the shots and should be masked off.
I think we’ve discussed super 8 gate masking before, but to honest I think it’s unrealistic.
Better to mask the screen for the appropriate feature.
Osi, Gremlins always springs to mind as having variable masking, as one part of the 35mm has hard 1.85:1 masking, but the rest is open gate. Not problem in the cinema, but the abridged super 8 print shows the hard masking for part of the second 600ft edit. Fortunately there are no boom mics and such on the open gate sections.
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 10, 2019 07:45 PM
Osi, our TV is a 36ins Sony XBR with a CRT which is now 20 years old. The picture and sound is great, like new, in fact IMO CRT displays have much better contrast and depth than flat panel TV'S. We only watch the news shows anyway, the rest of the 300 channels we get from Directv are hardly ever used (about 150 of those channels are commercial promo's anyway1 ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ). So I see no need to upgrade, we get the best movie shows in Orlando in our home cinema. The only down side is that the CRT beast weighs over 200 lbs!
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 11, 2019 02:37 PM
Actually Brian, good point. Open gate refers more to shooting the movie, whereas open matte refers more to the theatrical print, so you are right, we really should refer to these super 8 prints as open matte.
After 16:9 TV became standard, it didn't matter so much, but back in the day when VHS 4:3 was the norm (and super 8) it does seem random that some films were indeed filmed open gate for 1.85:1 projection, but protected for a full frame video release, whereas other productions just seemed to assume that the 1.85:1 version was all that would never be seen and allowed all sorts to creep into the open framing, especially in the 80's when the video business was huge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_matte
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