8mm Forum: Wanted: Long Play system.

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Topic: Wanted: Long Play system.

Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted August 16, 2015 07:08 PM

Anyone got a spare reel clamp for 16mm like the one in that last eBay listing? Screw thread. I have a mismatched pair. Need just the one but would buy a pair. PM me if poss.

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted August 17, 2015 03:50 AM

Hello Steven

What you need is a Scallop Knob similar to these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281759348557?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Obviously your screw thread may well not be M5 and most likely not even metric but at least you know what to ask for either online or in hardware stores.

Also Alan - from memory my Spondon had two switches and a variable pot - one switch for motor on/off, one for normal play or rewind (rewind mode bypasses the torque circuit) and then the variable torque pot. So when set up correctly it was very film kind - only usable with two sprocket projectors though as the extra film supply load would cause film perforation damage if used with single sprocket machines like the Eumig 926 or Agfa Sonnectors etc.

The rewind mode was never up to much anyway(too slow and wearing on the motor) so I used Elmo 1200ft rewinds which surprisingly can accommodate Beaulieu 2200ft spools and Fumeo 2400ft spools.

Kevin

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 17, 2015 04:20 AM

Hello Steven, not quite sure which part you are requiring, can you post a photograph please? I have a spare reel knob that secures the reel to the hub if that is what is needed?

I, like Kevin,and unlike Mike, have never found there to be any issues using the Spondon Long Play Unit with either the S938 or T610.
I tried once using it with an ST1200 and for whetever reason,it didn't seem to like it. I found it induced even greater instability around the lower loop,capstan roller and dancer mechanism than there is already so I only tried it the once.

With regard to Alan quizzing the difference between UK and US voltages and mains frequencies with these, it won't make any difference Alan.
The unit runs from a 220v to 12v D.C. adapter on these so you would just need to find an equivalent 110v 60Hz A.C. / 12v (60VA) D.C. adaptor if you purchased one from the UK for example.

Both of the above mentioned machines are happy to run all day long in my experience using one of these. If anything the projector gets an easier ride of things as it is only driving the film through the machine and the motor receives less of a load by the Spondon doing the take up work.

The lamp connector on my Bauer machines is the identical same high quality ones found in a Beaulieu machine that are designed to run with this spool size as also are the magnetic heads.

I use filmguard on all my magnetic prints and in doing so I haven't experienced any unusual amounts of build up or debris after projecting the maximum I ever do in one run, which is 2200ft.

For the home environment, I don't believe this system can be surpassed given the manner in which it runs. So very smooth and quiet as well as delicate film handling throughout.

[ August 18, 2015, 03:50 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted August 17, 2015 05:04 AM

Kevin, super thanks for that link. At least I know what to call what I'm looking for. I'll have to measure what the thread actually is. Thanks!

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 17, 2015 05:09 AM

Yes, I have a spare of these. I shall post a photo later. Hopefully it will be correct for your machine Steven.

I shall check the thread on it also, but I am fairly sure it is M5 or M6.

Here they are Steven. They are M6, same as my Spondon originals and the same high quality with their hard gloss plastic finish and quality Brass inserts.

The only difference between the two spares I have and the originals, is the originals have 4 scallops and the spares have 5.

You can have one of these gratis Steven if it is of any use to you.

[ August 17, 2015, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted August 17, 2015 01:52 PM

Thanks for the kind offer Andrew! I have a mismatched pair but neither of mine are like the ones you show. Did you mean the pair shown with five 'petals' are spare to you?

Hold the press, there are quite a few on eBay, let me have a look and check out the measurements! I'll let you know if I need them, Andrew! Trying to get two the same. Perfectionism! [Roll Eyes]

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 17, 2015 02:25 PM

Yes the pair of these are spares.

I was going to hold one back just in case anything happened to either of the ones on the unit Steven.

However, if you require a matched pair, then you can take both. One has a very slight chip to one of the insides of the plastic "petals" but this is purely only of cosmetic note and both will work perfectly for you Steven.

Keep me posted Steven whether or not you want them.

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted August 17, 2015 03:40 PM

Hang on to them, Andrew. Thanks again for the offer. I have realised that what I need ( which is for my Elmo pedestal 16mm ) needs to have the hole right through rather than be 'capped off' like the ones you show. No worry, there are in fact a lot of variants of this kind of thing on eBay and I'm sure in hardware stores. I'll find a nice pair in time. The thread seems to be M8. The knob diameter is 55mm so quite large. They are to hold on the 6,000ft reels.

This is close to it:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8-Through-Thread-Knob-Han d-Wheel-4-Pack-/180792739709?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a1816477d

Finding just the right thing is all part of the hobby!

[ August 18, 2015, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Steven J Kirk ]

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 17, 2015 04:02 PM

Very True Steven! Hope you get fixed up soon pal with your exact requirements. [Wink]

As you say, you need a much larger type of these for securing those huge reels!

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 23, 2015 05:22 PM

Here is an example of a LP system : http://www.ebay.de/itm/MOTOR-FILMUMSPULER-SPULTURM-FILMUMROLLER-FUR-RIESEN-SUPER-8-FILMSPULEN/121733902554?_trksid=p2047675.c100012.m1985&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAUL T%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140221143856%26meid%3D2ac12a69f9264dc193343b14d1b64ae3%26pid%3D100012%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D121732128544

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Dominique

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 24, 2015 01:38 AM

Dominique thanks for pointing that out. I used a translator and looks like they are not interested in shipping to the US, shame I would have jumped on this.
I could contact the seller but its difficult to work in another language.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 24, 2015 01:49 AM

just use a translator like Bing or Google to first put your enquiry into the sellers language Alan.

I have used this method many times when writing to German sellers.
Particularly useful also when something arrives that isn't as described. Stops all that business of the seller claiming they don't understand your complaint!

I always write in the sellers language nowadays for any query. If the replies come back in anything other than English, then I just translate it myself at my end.

By writing in the sellers own native language, I think there is also a far greater chance of getting them to sell to you if you are in a location ordinarily they will not post to.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted August 24, 2015 03:21 AM

Alan, I bought something yesterday night from this German seller. Although it was written that there could not be shipping to Belgium, I was surprised to see that on the final EBay sale page the shipping costs for Belgium appeared. So, the seller may ship to the US but of course I cannot speak for him or even advise to deal with someone I don't know yet. Be aware that the shipping may be expensive to your country so it is Wise to contact the seller first. You have to pay by bank transfert, which may also be expensive from the US (from Belgium to Germany, there is no fee as this is within the EC). Andrew's advise about the transaltor is Wise. You will notice that a translation made by a machine is often funny, sometimes hard to understand but it will give you a good idea of what the text contents. If you decide to write to the seller in German, I would advise you to use short sentences to make it easier for the translator you will use. It may be a good idea to ad the original text in English at the end of the German one.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 24, 2015 03:31 AM

yep I agree entirely Dominique. Always wise to send your original English written message alongside your translated one, just to be crystal and that there can be no misunderstanding!

It's amazing just how many of our oversees collectors can understand and answer really well any question you put to them in English whilst you are a potential customer, yet suddenly their complete lack of understanding of the English language causes no end of misunderstanding once the unsatisfactory purchase does not marry up with their description!

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

posted August 25, 2015 08:50 AM

I ordered these as reel clamps. I'll post the results when I get them. They will need a spacer as well but a fair visual clone of the originals:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291466856010

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 25, 2015 09:50 AM

They look perfect for your requirements Steven! I look forward to seeing a photo of these on your LP unit just as soon as you fit them

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 25, 2015 01:08 PM

Thanks for the advice Andrew and Dominique !!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 25, 2015 02:32 PM

Hope you get fixed up with one soon Alan. They're great!

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 19, 2017 10:49 PM

Bumping this thread back to the top Ive been enjoying the Spondon full play for a while. Today I was using it with a GS1200
and stopped the GS mid film and the shaft snapped on the spondon take up. No damage to the film. I had no idea the shaft was so fragil. I adjusted the torgue before starting the movie just to the point where the reel started to turn, I guess Ive learned the hard way to kill the power on the spondon before stopping the projector. Time to put to use one of the links in this thread for a replacement motor. Warning to others be careful the shaft is not very robust.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 19, 2017 11:26 PM

The shafts fitted to my own Spondon Long Play Unit are made from brass Alan.
They also have a form of nylon in the middle of the box section to make a slotted coupling membrane on the driven leg of the LPU.

I have stopped the Projector on many occasions while leaving the LPU still energized for short periods without any issues at all, but I do keep the take up torque to a minimum setting in order to allow the take up reel to still turn dependent on the amount of film mounted to it at any given time.

If you are saying the Brass square spindle section of the machine including screw thread and retaining collar is the part of the take up shaft that has sheared off, I'd be completely astonished Alan.

I'd expect the internal flexible membrane coupling to fail first in such circumstances and I wouldn't expect the Motor and gearbox on these to have sufficient torque to be able to shear off its own drive shaft.

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Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted August 20, 2017 03:30 AM

Hello Alan

That is a very unusual outcome as I've owned three of these over the years and the original instructions advise you to turn the Spondon motor on first to take up the torque from the motionless projector then switch the projector on. I've left mine in a similar pause mode for twenty minutes or more whilst playing around with the projector and lenses thankfully with no similar outcome to yours

One thing to watch out for though - are you sure you had the torque switch (not the adjustable knob) set to project rather than rewind mode? In projection mode the torque control comes into play, in rewind mode the motor torque is full on which would add to the strain on the mechanism.

Spondon used about three different motor types over the years with varying shaft sizes - similar ones are available over here from RS Components if you could upload a picture I'm sure a new motor that fits can be found.

Kevin.

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 20, 2017 11:31 AM

Thank you for the replies Andrew and Kevin. I was surprised when this happened I am sure I was in torque mode I was mid way through a reel of film and stopped the projector and next thing I no longer had tension on the spondon take up. I did not hear any noise when it happened. Before screening the reel I turned the torque adjustment just to the point the reel grabbed. One of those freak accidents. Here are a few pictures.

Edit: After making this post I noticed parts rattling inside the arm so I removed the end cap and one brass fitting with a screw fell out and a plastic bushing with a groove in it that looks like it mates with the brass fitting. Looking inside the arm the motor shaft is intact with a brass fitting attached to it. I do not yet have an understanding how these fit together and in what order but maybe something came loose and just needs to be put back in the proper order and tightened up. I have more pictures but forum restricts more then two pictures at a time. I will have to wait to post again following someone else post.

Edit #2: I figured out what happened, somehow the inner parts on the shaft loosened up and there was enough play it then allowed that plastic spacer to disengage. I reassembled everything and tightened her up and she is good as new again. Thanks to everyone who jumped in to help, what a wonderful resource of knowledge shared among friends:)

[ August 20, 2017, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Alan Gouger ]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 20, 2017 02:12 PM

This looks to me Alan, as though your gearbox has disintegrated rather than anything actually shearing from the shaft.

This is just off first glance I hasten to add and I'd only be able to tell for sure once the motor/ gearbox was removed.

One identical can be obtained from RS Components UK

The rest of your parts appear salvageable from what I can make out from the photographs.

All of your Spondon additional components look fine.

I am pleased you have been able to rebuild it Alan. [Smile]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Gouger
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Florida
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 20, 2017 02:33 PM

I am up and running again but as you say Andrew I am going to order a new motor for back-up and a few other parts while they are still available you never know when you might need them.

Now I can get back to enjoying the rest of the film where I left off.

Tomorrow is the big eclipse I hope we all do not turn into werewolf's:)

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 20, 2017 02:35 PM

Good to hear Alan! [Smile]

Very well done for finding the issue and resolving it very very quickly. [Wink]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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