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Author Topic: EIKI SL-0 Audio Problem
Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 20, 2017 08:40 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Beautiful unit that runs like a dream. Can't get the audio to work properly. When I lift the film with my finger while running I get sound. When I remove my finger the sound is either garbled or non-existent. Picture is rock steady and clear as crystal. I just can't figure it out. Film path is clean and clear. A forum member recommended I clean and re-lubricate the "Red Dot" roller (thanks, Greg) which I did, but the warbly sound is still there until I put my finger beneath the film and lift it a little.

[ August 01, 2017, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Brad Kimball ]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5680
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted July 23, 2017 11:56 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad
It seems that there is insufficient tension of the film around the sound drum.
It's a slot loader which may not be making the correct film path as it loads.
Is the Eiki new to you? Or has it just developed this problem?

--------------------
Maurice

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 23, 2017 09:04 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's new to me as of a couple of years ago. Tried to correct it when I first got it and then gave up. Stored it away in the coat closet in the front hall and just recently saw it and decided to give it another go. The seller maintained all was well with it before he shipped it out to me and was not willing to refund my $100US. I doubt he really tested it with film and was just looking to make a fast one hundred dollars. He has since left Ebay altogether (no surprise there). Even though I lost the money I hate to not be able to fix the issue being that the image is terrific and the unit is really nice and quiet.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1405
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 24, 2017 01:50 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Slot load projectors are great so long as the film is properly located in the film path. Whenever I load them I take hold of the the front and rear of the film with thumb and forefinger and pull the film back and forth to ensure the film is located on the rollers and in the guides. With the amp switched on you can hear the soundtrack as you do this so it also gives you audible confirmation that it is correctly located before you close the gate.
Even if this does not work I think it would be worth getting it repaired (shouldn't be an expensive fix) and then you will have a good and desirable machine.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted July 24, 2017 02:34 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had problems with slot loaders.
A lot happens when the control is rotated. Many items move to allow threading through the slot, and once loaded, return them to the operating position.
It might be a simple problem due to lack of lubrication, particularly with the roller which retains tension of the film around the sound drum.

--------------------
Maurice

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1561
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 24, 2017 07:19 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Could it be the small lens that focuses on the soundtrack is out of focus?

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 24, 2017 09:52 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think so, Jim. If I sit next to the projector and stick my index finger directly next to the "red dot" roller and just hold it there this seems to give the film just enough lift so the sound is perfect. When I take my finger away (to let the feeling in my arm come back) it warbles again. Re-insert my finger again and hold it in the exact same spot the audio is perfect again. Picture is never effected and is beautiful and bright. Just can't see sitting through an entire feature with my damned finger stuck inside the unit (I'm actually laughing right now because it must look as dumb as it sounds).

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted July 24, 2017 11:05 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad...I had a similar problem when I got my first Elmo 16CL. I too discovered if I lifted the film up towards the sound lens the sound got clearer. Eventually I fixed this by adjusting the buzz track. Look at the Eiki SL11 service manual (on this site) for the "Buzz Roller" (pages 53-54). This adjust the distance of the film to the sound drum.

I don't know if this is your problem, but it's worth looking into.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted July 25, 2017 04:28 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a good look at the video, including frame by frame advance.

1) The sound drum roller (the one with red dot) should have firm support of the film against it. This is not happening. The next roller (to the left of the sound drum) is bouncing up and down as the film moves. It should not do this.

2) The lower loop of the film from the bottom of the gate to the sound system is not large enough. This does not allow the intermittent movement of the film to be sufficiently smooth running when it reaches the sound drum.

3) Hence. You can get good sound by placing your finger on the film.

4) It certainly seems that the various roller and guides are not getting set correctly for film loading, this gives incorrect positioning when set to film forward.

5) Diagnosis? A full expert service is needed.

--------------------
Maurice

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Terry Sills
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From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted July 25, 2017 04:55 PM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad
The running film is what is known as 'chattering' that is to say it is not running smoothly through the projector as it should. unless you yourself are able to lubricate all rollers,guides and moving parts and hopefully solve the problem, you need expert help and I reiterate that it will be well worth the expense to get it working well.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 26, 2017 08:56 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well I have followed everyone's comments and direction as carefully as possible. I think it will need to see the projector physician. The finger lift will work in the meantime (wearing a cotton glove, naturally) until I can make the appointment. I'm very gentle when doing it and it's fine for a digest or short subject. Features will have to wait till after the surgery. I'm sure it's minor for the expert and I did try to follow the directions, Janice, in the manual for the SL-II, but no luck. It shouldn't be terribly expensive. Shipping it to and fro will probably be the bulk of the cost. Watch it be a 15 minute fix, but I don't have the skill set or the tools/parts to repair this baby.

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Jim Schrader
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From: Savage, MN, USA
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 - posted July 29, 2017 04:19 PM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here is my SSL-O while running I didnt take off the bottom bracket so it looks slightly different than yours check and see what the differnce might be.
https://youtu.be/mZBFoWCp_9U

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 29, 2017 06:21 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It sure looks the same. The video in my initial post is not mine, but someone else's that exhibited the same symptom. I'll try to upload a video of my unit running and this way you can see and hear exactly what is happening.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted July 30, 2017 05:03 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We can see in Jim's video that the film is moving very well around the roller just below the picture gate. The roller against the sound drum is also moving quite OK and it is holding the film tight around the sound drum.

This should be compared with the earlier video which shows problems at these points.

[ July 30, 2017, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

--------------------
Maurice

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Janice Glesser
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From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
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 - posted July 30, 2017 08:33 AM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad you definitely need to post a video of your projector. Without seeing how the film runs through the rollers on your machine it's very difficult to troubleshoot or make an accurate comparison to Jim's video.

--------------------
Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 30, 2017 05:52 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree, Janice. I will get one uploaded as soon as I can.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted July 31, 2017 02:28 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad
If you have any film like the yellow/white leaders it would be most helpful to thread your projector with this. It will then clearly show how the film is progressing through the rollers, etc.
The original film was not very clear on this point.

--------------------
Maurice

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 01, 2017 04:10 PM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2YCQxZMcQ
This is the link to the video of my actual projector. Note when I place my finger in the path the audio improves then when I remove it the audio is barely heard.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1405
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted August 02, 2017 02:33 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From watching the video it is obvious that the pinch roller is not activating and pushing the film against the top roller. You can see that the top roller does not turn until you put your finger under the film and push it against the top roller, then it turns as it should and the film is properly located and the sound is ok. Unless you can figure out why the bottom pinch roller is not working then you need expert help. But it shouldn't be a difficult or expensive fix.

[ August 02, 2017, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Terry Sills ]

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1561
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 02, 2017 07:49 AM      Profile for Jim Schrader   Author's Homepage   Email Jim Schrader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm surprised Richard C Patchett hasn't chimed in on this thread he maybe the one to have advice on if its an easy fix or not I assume the lower roller is pushed against the upper roller when the lever is turned on.

--------------------
jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1405
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012


 - posted August 02, 2017 08:29 AM      Profile for Terry Sills   Email Terry Sills   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jim
I too am surprised that Richard has not given his expert opinion. You're right when you say that the bottom roller should close the gap when the main control switch is turned to 'run' . My guess is that a mechanical connector or spring has come adrift but I'm sure Richard will be able to identify the fault.

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Richard C Patchett
Master Film Handler

Posts: 418
From: Flint Mi 48506
Registered: Dec 2007


 - posted August 02, 2017 09:31 AM      Profile for Richard C Patchett   Author's Homepage   Email Richard C Patchett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greetings
I was just watching this thread to see if anyone had a answered this.
Been trying to upload the service page No Luck
Just too much infor on this to type this out and add pictures
I can send you a email with this information
if you like
Please email me at patchetts@comcast.net
Thank you

--------------------
RC’s Classic Collection
16 mm Parts & Service
Elmo, Eiki, Bell & Howell +
http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com/

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5680
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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 - posted August 02, 2017 10:14 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A service manual for the Eiki SL II series can be downloaded from the Film Tech site.
Go to 16mm projectors, and then down to Eiki SLII series service manual.
http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/index.php?category=2#16mm Projectors

--------------------
Maurice

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1161
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted August 02, 2017 10:49 AM      Profile for Brad Kimball   Email Brad Kimball   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did look at the service manual, but not being too mechanically inclined I didn't want to risk making a minor issue worse or risk damaging some other component(s).

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5680
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007


 - posted August 02, 2017 11:10 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We now know where the trouble is. The roller in question is not being set correctly when in the running mode.
It now seems that you need professional help.

--------------------
Maurice

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