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Author Topic: Panasonic VP
John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 12, 2004 03:23 PM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David, you'll need new players for either new format. Sorry. The great technological rip-off continues unabated.

All the posts on here have convinced me. I'm going to junk all my film equipment - even get rid of that inferior quality 35mm machine and replace it with a £1,000 video projector. Oh! Silly me! I've already got a £7,000 video projector. Funny how by comparison it's crap. But then, if it wasn't it would be time for a trip to the optician.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1257
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted December 12, 2004 10:12 PM      Profile for Michael De Angelis   Email Michael De Angelis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,
I want to hear more about the 35mm Projector. Is it portable, and are they affordable? Do you store the film on cores?
There always seems to be a print that I wish to get on 35.

As I mentioned earlier, my wife gave me a DVD gift of High Noon, and It just leaves me cold. The quality of the transfer is just OK. It has wonderful extras, but it's not film.

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 02:57 AM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, take a look at the pictures on www.bfcc.biz under the 'Home Cinemas' pages. Keith has the Xenon version of this portable machine whereas mine has been converted to a standard 250w lamp. We use Keith's at most conventions and despite the lamp being on the way out which means we have to re-strike it occasionally during a show it puts a very bright, white light on the 24ft screen.

These projectors seem to come up quite often on Ebay but are generally in the States. Only two dozen were imported to Britain apparently. Shipping from America is going to be prohibitively expensive. But Phil Sheard of Classic sometimes has portable 35mm machines for sale. Also worth registering with the 35mm forum. Some of the people who post are a tad rude but if you can ignore the 'know-it-alls' who like to ridicule anyone who gets anything wrong about their beloved cinema subject then it can prove rewarding. I've got some amazing films from around the world for very little outlay. And the main reason for this is it helps to keep the shows at the BFCC's interesting in the future. It costs Keith and I a fortune in films meaning the conventions run permanently at a loss but we're more interested in promoting the hobby and trying to keep it going. A shame our detractors and snipers don't appreciate that.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3738
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 12:05 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi John I don`t think you can make any comparrison between the old 7k machine and the new panasonic, this rsally is as good or as close to 35mm in the home and beats most many multi thousand machine`s form even not that long ago.
Saying that its not an old sharp is it you have as they really were crap until not too long ago.
Your in the smoke John, it would be ever so simple for you to see one properly set up and you really wouldn`t belive it now, the PT700 by all accounts is unbelievable for the price.
And leaves even good 16mm way behind in its superb qaulity. Have a gander at some screen shots at least.
What it all comes down to is that film can happily sit side by side with VP but film and film equipment prices are coming down, certainly looking on ebay lost of things that would have gone for much more now languish around, projectors go for less, even half of that they would 2 years ago.
Look at that GS1200 I mentioned for £650 not a nibble yet, says it all, whos going to pay that when even a modest new VP for around £450 with 3 years gaurantee will pretty much blow it away.
Film is great fun but its going to have to sit in the fun to fiddle and do spot now, as honestly new VP standards are storming ahead of it.
Also players capable of dvd playing will be with us for 10 to 20 years now as good old joe public have all gone and bought £20s upwards dvd players and now buy dvds in their multi millions, maybe even billions so you will still for donkeys years be able to buy something to show them as there will be a market long tem that will be sated.
A good transfer dvd even on my old sony CS2 banger looks superb compared to most 8 or 16mm but I`ll still love and enjoy film, but well said paul we need to be able to accept that the future is here and all things move on.
I`m telling you now anyone who does cine and gets a panny 700 will be blown away and love it side by side with their elmos etc.
Best Mark.

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 03:36 PM      Profile for John Clancy   Author's Homepage   Email John Clancy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Mark, I've seen many of the latest machines and they're just not that good. I hold out great expectations for Colin Clark's new JVC though. It has the latest DLP/LCD cross fertilization three chip technology and is by all accounts film quality.

Trouble is, I can't really justify £12k on another video projector.

Been to the optician lately? [Wink]

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 819
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 05:13 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see this debate has gone the usual way.

Well lets do something different. Let both sides of the argument produce their evidence. Then everybody can see for themselves and decide for themselves.

As Paul and Jean Marc both own Panasonics why don’t they take a few Screenshots to show what their machine can do. They can post them on this forum, or one the numerous 16mm forums I’m sure even the BFCC site would take them as it would only strengthen their argument that no VP will ever surpass 8mm
quality.

Remember we are talking 8mm because this is a 8mm site !!!

John can no doubt can take screens shots of his £7000.00 VP in action to show us how bad it is. He can produce screenshots of BFCC Conventions so it should be no bother to him .

If all the warring factions produce the evidence then we will never have to have this thread again.

I'm sure nobody has anything to be afraid off!!

I await your PHOTOS in anticipation. [Cool]

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1558
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 05:37 PM      Profile for Joe Taffis   Email Joe Taffis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is an 8mm film hobbyists' site. Folks interested in 8mm film and equipment. This is not a site that determines what is the best way to view a film. This is not a site to debate quality differences in VCRs, DVD players, televisions, etc., and how well they display a movie or show. The enthusiasm with the quality of the video projectors you own shouldn't even be brought up here on the 8mm forum. I also have a pretty good video projector, but other than this sentence(I felt that I needed to mention it), I would never bring the subject up here on the forum. Please guys, I know that you're happy about the quality, and feel the need to share this info, but use some self restraint and don't forget where you are...an 8mm film forum. I would rather read no new posts than posts about unrelated items and equipment...just my 2 cents worth....

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Joe Taffis

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Mike Newell
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 819
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 06:26 PM      Profile for Mike Newell   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Joe

I take your point but as 16mm is now incorporated on this site
and I dont think this can be regarded as 8mm exclusive site anymore.

Most if not all collectors use more than one format to view films. There are threads that I do not find particularly useful or relevant but I allow others to share their views and opinions.

This forum is here to debate matters. This issue has raged on for some time and will flare up again and again.

I am trying to find a solution to the matter rather than it becoming the usual slanging match.

Paul has offered to get screenshots for comparison then at least everyone should have the opportunity to see and make up their own mind on the issue.

Video projectors are plentiful but buying is a minefield recommendations/reviews of good and bad would be an useful contribution to many collectors.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2387
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted December 13, 2004 06:34 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
some photos here

If anyone asks, I'll be in the kitchen, putting my DVDs in the dishwasher and wrapping the Xmas gifts with my precious Mountain Release print of King Kong.
[Roll Eyes]

(Dear Brad, feel free to move this thread to the "General Yak" section...)

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 503
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 13, 2004 11:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
*Moving to the Yak forum, since this is not 8mm specific.

*Please upload the pictures to the forum. Linking off-site will produce a broken link sooner or later.

Those screenshots Jean-Marc posted don't really show or prove anything. We have too many variables. First off, there is no proof that some digital touch-ups haven't been going on, so that becomes useless. Second, it just LOOKS like video to me...but then again that may be your digital camera at work, which again makes this useless. Third, the colors are oversaturated, but again this could be your digital camera. Fourth, there is no contrast, again possibly your digital camera.

The only thing screenshots are good for is verifying how badly scratched a film is (but if the scratches move, odds are they won't show up, so even that isn't the best idea in the world). Now if identical pictures had been taken off of the video projector and then off of a film being projected, there would at least be something more to compare.

I'm not taking sides here, but if you put a properly set up (often modified) Super 8mm image up against a DVD as source material, the film is going to win every time (unless it is scratched). However if you don't have the best Super 8mm projector, a DVD projected image may look better than the film. There are just too many variables. Ideally I think both formats can coincide happily in the same room.

Here are some shots from my screening room...

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This is a Christie professional 3 chip DLP

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Here is a shot comparing the image off of the DLP (right) to the picture off of a very high end LCD video projector.

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Another shot of the comparison.

Now the important thing to note here is that while the LCD didn't look bad, when compared to the DLP in these images the LCD looks like CRAP! This is because the DLP was brighter and the camera exposed for the DLP image, thus leaving the LCD not looking too great. The results were not this blatant in person, hence the digital camera is playing tricks on you.

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This is a shot running a 35mm print of Blue Hawaii. Notice how nice it looks? Well I've got news for you, the print WAS scratched. However the scratches did not show up in this picture because they were jiggling and the exposure on the digital camera was enough to conceal them.

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Here is a shot of Ferris Bueller running. This time you can see the scratches because they were stationary. However there were other scratches on the film that again, did not appear in this picture.

Screenshots really don't prove anything guys. [Frown]

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2387
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted December 14, 2004 02:25 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Your equipment is quite impressive...
(O-Ren Ishii in Kill Bill - vol 1)

quote:
Ideally I think both formats can coincide happily in the same room.
My thought exactly. [Wink]

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1326
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted December 14, 2004 11:44 AM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At the next gathering of the lightwater 6 I suggest that we get hold of some video projectors- mine is now quite old (Infocus something or other)-and compare them to Mr Faulkner's Xenon.

Yawn

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Tony

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Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 859
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted October 20, 2018 11:45 AM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
... and yet the question remains. Which is better - Microsoft Windows or Apple OS? Sorry, film or video, Marvel or DC. Everyone pick a side, this means War! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] It strikes me lately how everything these days has to be either/or, nobody seems to want to like everything. Oh, I forgot the big one: which is better - Men or Women? Why is it always a choice of 2 things...

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VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

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