8mm Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » General Yak   » Choosing a Video Projector (Page 1)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Choosing a Video Projector
Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 04, 2009 12:07 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well,

I'm about to take The Plunge. We've decided it would be nice to have a video projector as a supplement to my Super-8 ones, to fill in a lot of gaps as far as content and also be able to show broadcast media on my big screen.

When I look at these, my eyes glaze over: so many choices, so many abbreviations. So what I've decided to do is pick out two er..."machines" and see what people here have to say about them.

First:

Epson 705HD

Second:

Panasonic PT-AX200U

I've heard the Panasonic spoken very highly of here, but it's coming in about 30% higher in price than the Epson. Do the differences justify the price?

What say you, Jury?

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4915
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 04, 2009 12:58 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve,
Glad to hear you are about to purchase a video projector - I assure you that you are in for a treat no matter what projector you decide on. After years (or in my case decades!)of having to go through the 'torture' of deciding on what super 8mm films to buy within your budget, video projection with DVD'S is like being a kid in a candy store - so much to choose from at so little price! You will be watching all the hundreds of great movies that have never made it to super 8mm. All of which is not to denigrate super 8mm in any way. Once a 'reel' man always a 'reel' man!
Now as to the choice of a good projector, this depends a lot on your budget. Like everything else in life you get what you pay for and the higher price VP'S usually have better performance (brighter, better contrast). But the nice thing is this - even the budget priced projectors will blow you away in terms of picture quality. Expect bright, really sharp PQ, with great looking color, no matter what PJ you get.
Personally, I like the Panasonic range, for several reasons:

1. They all have 2X zoom lenses, which means you can put the PJ at the back of the room alongside your super 8mm projector. So its out of sight and out of the way. I do not like seeing a PJ hung from the ceiling right over the audience.

2. The Panasonics have large 'lens shift' range. This means that theprojector lens can be moved up and down and sideways (without moving the projector) to accurateley center the picture on the screen. Projectors which do not have lens shift capability are a real pain to align with the screen.

3. Finally, and I think the most important, at least for me, is that Panasonic are the only projectors which have their patented Smooth Screen Technology which TOTALLY eliminates pixel visibility and the dreaded screen door effect. This means that your picture will look almost as good as film, with none of the pixel blocks being visible no matter how close you sit to the screen.

Another decision you have to make is whether to buy and LCD or DLP projector. DLP'S used to have much better contrast than LCD, and LCD used to have much better color saturation than DLP, but this is no longer the case with the two technologies now being very close in terms of PQ. The main disadvantage of DLP is the dreaded 'rainbow effect' caused by the mechanically spinning color wheel inside single chip DLP projectors. It can cause you to see color fringing on fast moving objects, and can also cause headaches and nausea. The vast majority of people do not see it, but if your one of the 5% of the population that do, it can be a real problem.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 04, 2009 01:11 PM      Profile for Steven Sigel   Email Steven Sigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do Not - I repeat DO NOT buy any video projector without seeing it in action and making sure you like it (or at least getting a referral from someone you completely trust) -- there are huge variations in picture from different projectors - and even projectors that have excellent reviews may not produce a picture that you like.

Video projectors are very different from film projectors -- in the case of film, the print is far more important than the projector (with the exception of the Xenon/non Xenon issue) - with video, the opposite is true - the projector is far more important that the media you are using. The best blu-ray in the world will still look like crap on a bad projector.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 04, 2009 01:41 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Therefore this is not exactly the kind of thing I should unwrap as a "surprise" Christmas morning?

Ho!, Ho!, Ohhhhhhhhh No!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 871
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008


 - posted November 04, 2009 09:28 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The above comments are spot on. I would emphasise the Panasonic's ability to produce a cinematic picture without the dreaded 'screen door effect'. This is super important to us film collectors raised on 8 and 16. My vote would be for the Panasonic.

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

 |  IP: Logged

Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 05, 2009 12:11 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn   Email Christopher P Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Panny will give you a some what superior picture over the Epson, although a touch softer due to the smooth screen. The Epson will give you superior after sales service, and better reliability.

Steve, check out the AVforum here http://www.avforums.com/forums/index.php It will give you a better idea with owner threads and reviews.

Chris.

--------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3803
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 07:05 AM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I`m not sure about the USA Epson version but the UK ones look nicer than the panasonic I think.

I think I would be swayed by the Epson 3 year free cover, I think they even cover the bulb now too.

I don`t think you would see the screen door on an epson with the number of pixels, and as people metioned thay are a tad sharper.

Buy I`d alwasy go LCD myself as not too sure about the rainbow effect on dlp machines and odd people can succumb to it and on the sam thought I wonder whats going on in your brain even if you can`t see it.

LCD is more like watching a film frame sat in front of a light source.

Anyway happy viewing`s, you will love it whatever but your family will really love it as it opens up so much more that they can then enjoy, not just what films you have bought.

Best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 08:06 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The "rainbow effect" is actually of concern to me because a member of my family has a seizure disorder. It's very well controlled but we're a little leery of things like strobe lights. Even if it just gives her a headache, where's the joy in that?

This is something I didn't have any idea about: glad I asked!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4915
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 10:09 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,
If a member of your family suffers from seizure disorder then you absolutely must stay clear of a DLP projector. I am not hear to bash DLP, but the fact is that a single chip DLP projector uses a spinning color wheel to produce the color (something like the early 1900's Kinemacolor system which had a spinning red and green filter in front of the projector) and this can really upset some people. Even if it does not induce a seizure it can induce headaches and nausea in a small percentage of the population. Personally, I would not want to take the chance that someone in my audience was experiencing discomfort, even if I was not. Now, all that I have said does not apply to 3-chip DLP projectors, but these are extremely expensive , $15k and up. LCD projectors use 3 separate red, blue, and green panels, and have no such prolem. The main advantage of DLP over LCD is that the pixel gaps are a bit smaller, so you get a little less screen door effect. DLP contrast used to be better than LCD, but this is no longer the case.
Both technologies have their own reliability issues. The failure mode for LCD projectors is usually long term heat damage of the polarizers ( my Panny is now 5 years old and is still running great, so lifetime clearly depends on how many hours a day you run the projector) The failure mode for single chip DLP projectors seems to be mainly the failure of the color wheel bearings, which are running at about 20,000 rpm, and the resultant shattering of the color wheel.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 11:38 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One thing that concerns me with the Epson is the very limited Zoom (1:1.2). To me this means I'll often have to choose either the image size or the projector location, but have to take whatever I get as far as the other non-choice. The Panasonic scores here, and some of that extra money is beginning to make a little sense.

One has no speaker, the other has 1W. To me this is shaping up to a lot of gear (projector+media player+amplifier+speakers) to haul around if I ever take my show on the road (which I do a couple of times a year). One of the joys of a small gauge film projector is it's all in the same box: you grab the handle and you go!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 12:11 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, looking at the Epson and Panasonic, I know this is probably a LOT more than you were planning to spend, but I cannot praise my JVC DLA-HD350 enough. Granted £3500 is a whole lot of serious money, but I have bought several projectors from various well known brands over the years and many have proved a disappointment, making me wish I'd saved my money for something better. About a year ago I paid nearly £2000 for a DLP which turned into a nightmare...broke 3 times in a few months [Frown] . It is now a £2000 doorstop! I kid you not...

Honestly, unless you start moving into £10,000 upwards, the JVC's are, in my opinion, really the best out there. They just don't have competition, except, as pointed out in another thread they are only 1000 lumens which can be an issue if your screen is really big! But performance is the most filmic I have seen from a sub-£10,000 projector. At least arrange a demo [Wink] !

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 12:38 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I hear what you are saying Rob, but £3500 (something around $5,600 American) would be a hard sell with the Wife.

I can only push the "I let you have granite counter tops when plywood would have cost one tenth as much!" argument so far! [Wink]

I think we are looking to stay in the more entry level neighborhood.

I'll avoid a demo for the same reason I'll never test drive a Porsche...because then I'll want one!
(Ignorance is bliss!)

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 01:21 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LOL! [Smile] Fair enough, Steve...you should have heard the conversation when I brought home the JVC!!!

In fairness, although my better half has always enjoyed the old home cinema, she never really gets too excited about it all...until we watched "Mamma Mia" on the JVC. Half way through she announces, "...you could actually reach out and touch those actors!"

I thought she was taking the ****! I said, "there's no need to be sarcastic!"

But she actually meant it! [Smile] So I got way with spending our savings this time!!!

Anyway, best of luck with your choice of VP and enjoy!!! [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 05, 2009 01:40 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah..I lost the right to extravagance a long time ago.

After I heard one of her ideas for buying something I said

"Oooh!, and we can take the money we have left over and buy an aircraft carrier! You know, for weekends!"

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4798
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 06:35 AM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
May i also ask some questions on this subject please? I am a total novice on this subject.
I agree with what i read on "what you pay is what you get". I certainly wouldnt want to jump into a bugdet price only to find when the bulg goes its either no longer made or costs £300-£400.
However, i afford a top price machine so in your opinions what is a good starting price for a reasonable DV projector?
I to, will be running this along side my 8 and 16mm so i'm not looking to replace super 8, therefore a good reasonable quality would be ideal, after all, DVD is so sharpe everytime i'm sure most DVs would give a reasonable image in an average living oom. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008


 - posted November 06, 2009 08:00 AM      Profile for Martin Jones   Email Martin Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, You say you can afford a top price machine.. are you the same Tom Photiou that announced on here recently that you were getting married?
Martin

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

 |  IP: Logged

peter booth
Master Film Handler

Posts: 258
From: scarborough,north yorkshire
Registered: Jul 2004


 - posted November 06, 2009 09:16 AM      Profile for peter booth   Email peter booth       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Tom,
I recently bought the Panasonic PT-AX200E VP LCD from soundandvisiononline.com who are based in Farnworth,Bolton.It came in brand new at £869 which I thought a great price as it was over a thousand at most dealers.It gives a great performance and while it is High Definition,(not full HD)gives a stunning picture on Blu-Ray.
A lot of the £3/£500 projectors are not for home cinema use mainly corporate,and a lot are 4x3 only.
Best wishes for your big day,
Regards,
Peter.

 |  IP: Logged

Christopher P Quinn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 210
From: Bedfordshire
Registered: Sep 2008


 - posted November 06, 2009 10:27 AM      Profile for Christopher P Quinn   Email Christopher P Quinn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, have you had 5 years trouble free, I seem to remember you had to have a repair done at some stage. Mine is now working again, but for how long I don’t know as still running tests.

It is pretty obvious that the more you spend the better you get, that’s life. These projectors are not perfect, the polarising filters don’t stay absolutely lined up and therefore colour problems can and do appear. Any LCD at the budget end of the market will not be able to produce a 100% clear white light from corner to corner. And if they do at the start, they won’t after 100-200 hours.

I started my association with VP trying to get a real film like look. That was a frustrating and wasteful time, tweaking and tweaking the things until I ran of tweaks. You won’t get it. But you do get a great picture from DVD and far more so from blu-ray, and if you learn to love both differently you will enjoy your VP no matter what one you choose. I recommend the Panasonic and also the Epson. The Epson is cheaper than the Panny and if you don’t have a blu-ray player the Epson would allow you to buy a blu-ray player within or near enough the budget for getting the Panny. Knowing what I know now I would be happy with the Epson, but £1800 would get me a good DLP and I would chance the rainbow, as I here that this effect even on the cheaper ones are a lot better now. Although if like Paul your planning large audiences then maybe not.

Isn’t it funny the way there is now a gathering passion growing for VP. A few years ago and this would have been ignored.

Chris.

--------------------
Chris Quinn Rides again.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 11:07 AM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The trouble I'm having with these things is it's true: most people regard these as a business machine and I'm not seeing them featured in consumer electronics stores.

The only time I ever see a roll-up screen near a home is at the curb waiting for the garbage to be picked up, so much that I've even stopped "rescuing" them!

The standard for big screen video is an immense television, and these are easy to see demonstrated at the store, if I see a VP at all it's inside a display case.

This is kind up curious as projected video can be on an even bigger screen and when the thing's not in use the screen can go away and not leave a blank screen begging to be turned on and disrupt human interaction. ("It's a birthday party! Why are they all watching TV?!")

I'm hoping to buy at B&H in Manhattan, and I'm wondering if they'll demonstrate them for me.

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged

Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 4915
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 11:27 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Chris,
You have a good memory! Yes, you are absolutely right, a couple of years ago I did have to send my Panny AE700 off for repair to the Panasonic Service Center in Lexington Kentucky. All of a sudden the projector would not power up, I thought it was the lamp, but it turned out to be the power supply. Panasonic installed a new power supply upgrade at no cost (I was still a couple of months inside the 2 year extended warranty that I had purchased) and the VP has operated flawlessly ever since. It still has the original lamp, which is now getting close to 3000 hours, so I will be replacing that pretty soon. The only issue I have is that the picture is dimmer than it was, due no doubt to the ageing lamp. But color, contrast, and sharpness look as good as when new so, at this time, I have no problem at all with the polarizers.
Bottom line for me Chris, is that I feel the Panny has served me very well for 5 years now, which is a good lifetime for a VP. Next year, I am hoping to get the new 1080p Panny AE4000, which I gather is a huge jump in PQ from my little AE700.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 12:57 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, you're right that a lot of VP's are sold as commercial boxes for conferences and the like, but there is a whole market out there for home cinema. It's actually the new "trendy" thing, here in the UK at least [Roll Eyes] ! Of course, most premier league footballers weren't alive when super 8 was about, so they think spending a fortune on a home cinema is a "new" thing!!! [Wink]

You need to go to specialist dealers. High street electrical retailers aren't interested in this market. Don't know about the states, but here there are lots of really knowledgeable shops if you know where to look. And that doesn't necessarily mean expensive..."Sevenoaks" for example, or "Practical hi-fi".

Try searching the web for these UK shops and then finding the equivalent where you are. Also look at the web site for UK publication "Home Cinema Choice".

Many moons ago I worked for a "specialist" hi-fi shop and learned then that really good, solid advice is only based upon actually using gear...and that really good retailers actually do care that their customers are buying kit that they are going to be happy with. Also, when things do go wrong, it is essential to have a relationship with a good dealer...something you don't get by buying cheap off the web; good for some things, but not things like a VP.

Over the last year alone, I have learned yet again that being able to return to a good, solid dealer with whom you have a relationship is the only answer when you end up at loggerheads with the manufacturer.

Christopher; DLP and "rainbow"...hasn't improved at all. In some cases it is actually worse. The thing to look for in the spec. is the SPEED of the colour wheel...and this isn't always made obvious. Colour wheels are often quoted as having 5, 6, 7 segments. This only affects colour rendition and is often mis-quoted as diminishing "rainbow". Colour wheel speed determines rainbow. Many expensive single chip machines use 4x speed which, if you're like me and see rainbow is TOTALLY unnacceptable. Some use 6x...certainly rainbow is dimished but then you get into other problems.... [Frown]

PS. Peter, I just re-read your post about "Sound and Vision" and to avoid any potential mis-understanding, would like to clarify that I certainly DO NOT see them as being a "cheap off the web" company. I have a lot of respect for them. But I think you all know that there are plenty "cheap off the web" companies out there [Roll Eyes]

 |  IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4798
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 01:12 PM      Profile for Tom Photiou   Email Tom Photiou   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Badley worded on my behalf!!! [Embarrassed] I menat i cant afford a top of the range. Thanks to all though, i am learning and researching. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1619
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 01:14 PM      Profile for Rob Young.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom, you can get a JVC on 12 months interest free from the right shop...go on, you know you want too... [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3803
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 02:16 PM      Profile for Mark Todd   Email Mark Todd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Steve might I suggest you ring a few local AV outlets and see whats on the shelves second hand or ex demo etc.

Many office based machines are also superb for DVD etc.

Are you doing Blu Ray or Just DVD.

I find dvd projected to be superb and far good enough for me.

The sony,s epsons, philips and hitachi LCD machines are very good for video projection and some even have 3 colours in so you can do pretty good 1080i with an XGA machine, thats 2.3 million pixels you simply will not see.

I`d suggest trying to pick up an ex office or school Philips B,Sure 4000 series machine, around 1600 lumens but not too bright as video biased and the picture on these is superb.

Its a 4/3 machine but you can watch 16/9 and also zoom in with different ratio,s and colour adjustemenst etc.

I reckon you would pick an OK one up for around $150 and they also have a really decent zoom lens with good range so you can set the machine back.

You might see one cheap on ebay with a back up etc, the best are the long rectangular ones with the lens on the center front, and they are absolutely silent running as well, Marvelous Machines.

Somthing like that would be a good toe dip into the water etc. Decent DVD blows most 16mm well way even on these philips, they are that good.

Best Mark.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 6907
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 06, 2009 02:54 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mark

I think what you are saying may be a good way to get into this. I'll look into it.

I'd say the plan for the Moment is DVD, but Blu-Ray somewhere along the line.

It's funny, about a year ago I took my little boy to a Sons of the Desert meeting. The show that night was "Way Out West" and the presentation was using this really ancient video projector (I'm not completely sure, but I think it said "Edison" on the side...) hooked up to a VCR with a VHS somebody had grabbed off of a cable movie channel. I don't think I need to tell anybody it looked horrible.

With that as a reference, anything I wind up with will have to look spectacular!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2