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Author Topic: Pathe Baby 12 volt Conversion
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 11, 2009 01:12 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At Bob Pucci's request, here are the instructions for the way I converted my Pathe Baby to 12 volt 20 watt halogen lighting:

1. Completely remove the old ceramic wire-wound resistance in the base of the machine, including the two connector pins that stick up from the base, and all assocaited hardware.

2. Go to a home store and purchase a 12 volt halogen light kit that includes the little transformer to run off 115 volts mains. Price about $20.00.

3. Mount the transformer into the (now totally open) base of the Baby.

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4. You will need to make an adaptor sleeve for the 12 volt ceramic lamp holder, so it can mount into the existing lamp housing tube of the Baby. Here is the CAD drawing of the one that I designed for my machine. It cost me $80.00 to get it made out of stainless steel (brass would also be fine) at a local machine shop:

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5. Slide the adapter tube into the neck of the baby lamp housing (from the top opening) and clamp with the existing Baby saddle clamp and bolt. Screw the new ceramic lamp holder to the top of the adaptor sleeve using two #4-40 UNC PAN HD bolts, and run the wires down throught the slots in the sleeve, and through the existing hole for the lamp wires into the base of the projector. Connect to the 12 volt output wires of the little transformer by soldering or crimping. Then insulate the connection with heat shrink sleeving or tape. Install a 12 volt 20 watt miniature halogen lamp.

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6. At this point you can just plug the transformer socket directly to your wall socket and you are up and running with 12 volt halogen lighting. Adjust the lamp centering on the projectors condenser lens by moving up and down the adaptor sleeve to maximize screen brightness. Thats,it. If you have a hand cranked Baby you now have a totally safe 12 volt Baby that is externally unaltered from the original.

7. If you have a motorized Baby, you will want to connect the 115 volt input wires of the transformer over to the 2-pin connector inside the motor housing. Realize though that if you are using the motor there is danger of electrical shock due to the old insulation and questionable safety of the existing motor. Be very careful as the motor connector pins insulation are primitive and dangerous by modern standards, so make sure none of your wire connections are touching any metal inside the motor housing. Check with an ohmeter when you are done, to make absolutely sure nothing is shorting out. Also, screw a ground wire to the base of the projector and use a 3-prong grounded connecting cord.
Remember: SAFETY FIRST Always be very careful when turning on and operating these 85 year old machines if they have the motor hooked up!

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
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Martyn Stevens
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Leighton Buzzard, UK
Registered: Jul 2007


 - posted January 14, 2009 03:57 PM      Profile for Martyn Stevens   Author's Homepage   Email Martyn Stevens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
ul,
There are pix of an approach I tried with babies on my website at http://www.cinerdistan.co.uk/restoration.htm#Baby%20Lamp%20Adapter. I am clearly going wrong somewhere - last batch I made I sold for a fiver each - I shall have to take on board what you had to pay!
Martyn Stevens

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted June 27, 2009 06:56 PM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage   Email frank arnstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul
I have done this conversion on a Baby of mine but am troubled by overheating occuring at the aperture. This happens shortly after running the lamp. The aperture and gate area become very hot to the touch. The film will burn if it stops moving through.
Films also burn soon after the pathe activates the device for pausing the film for reading titles etc.
If I crank real fast, I may get a film through without burn but the heat build up continues & it has to be allowed to cool again before any further use.
I tried a 12v 15w version but it was also too hot. Its too near to the condensor but I cant move the lamp back at all.
I am a bit dissappointed in this but have now managed to get a 12v 10w halaogen lamp and I will try it out soon. I expect a much dimmer picture but hope the heat issue is resolved.
Was this a problem at all with your Baby conversion Paul ???

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At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

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[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 28, 2009 01:46 AM      Profile for Dino Everette   Email Dino Everette   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Try this. see if you can reduce the voltage to 10V, When I read your post I remembered this from an old issue of Flickers.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 28, 2009 11:32 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Frank,
I have not had any problems using the 20watt halogen, but that is probably because I do not run any notched titles. In fact I have temporarily disabled the projectors notch title trip mechanism with a paper clip - I find that it makes threading up the film through the gate a lot easier.
Of course you can still go ahead and use a 12 volt 10 watt halogen lamp - it will still be a lot brighter than the original Pathe lamps.
Good luck!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
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Mikael Barnard
Film Handler

Posts: 85
From: Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, UK
Registered: Jun 2009


 - posted June 28, 2009 02:54 PM      Profile for Mikael Barnard   Email Mikael Barnard   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm converting one of these myself at the moment so this is all very timely and helpful, cheers!

Mikael.

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Bob Pucci
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Westerly,RI
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 28, 2009 06:56 PM      Profile for Bob Pucci   Email Bob Pucci   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did my pathe baby like Paul said.The only difference is that I used a 12 volt 20 watt LED or LCD and I can stop my film and it won't burn.I got the bulb at Homedepot.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted June 29, 2009 11:29 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob, what a great idea - LED lighting, which is cool and efficient, and the bulb will last forever! I must get one into my Pathe Baby. Thanks!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Dino Everette
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1535
From: Long Beach, CA USA
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted June 30, 2009 02:33 AM      Profile for Dino Everette   Email Dino Everette   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
will you get the same lumens out of the throw with the LED?

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frank arnstein
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 534
From: Gold Coast. Australia
Registered: Jan 2005


 - posted July 23, 2009 01:37 AM      Profile for frank arnstein   Author's Homepage   Email frank arnstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Paul & others on this Baby thread,

I finally got around to getting back onto the Baby restoration. After the overheating problem that was initially encountered with both 20w & 15w halogen lamps I put it aside to reconsider.
10w was the answer to the problem and now it is happily playing notched films without any burning at all. Light is good too.
Before, even a 15w lamp would burn notched film within a short time. The whole gate would get hot to the touch but now its only warm.

So I recommend the 10w halogen to those rewiring the lamp on these Babies.
dogtor Pufferfish

--------------------
At Projector Heaven the Focus is always on Detail.

____
[o:/o]<|=- dogtor@projectorheaven.com.au
//``\\
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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted July 23, 2009 03:52 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Glad it worked out Frank. The Baby is well worth converting to modern lighting even if its only 10 watts! I have done a similar conversion on the Ace which works out very well.
Both projectors are a unique connection to the home cinema of the past, and kids in particular seem fascinated by them. So don't keep your 9.5mm equipment locked up collecting dust, get it out and show some 9.5mm films to today's digital generation like Dino does!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Warton Parfitt
Junior
Posts: 12
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted October 19, 2009 02:28 PM      Profile for Warton Parfitt   Author's Homepage   Email Warton Parfitt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here in the UK we have 240v mains and a useful conversion can be done by taking the 6volt transformer out of a clapped-out standard/super 8 editor, fitting it in the Baby base and running a 6v 10w QI lamp off it. This does not damage titles when stopped in the gate

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted November 23, 2013 02:46 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I bought this DIY lamp holder adapter from Martyn Stevens.

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This should fit into the original holder and a G4 (4mm) 2-pin bulb inserted into the socket on the other end. I don't know if this adapter will work...but my question is... instead of using a halogen bulb....Will the LED lamp at this link work with a 12 volt transformer? http://www.lowes.com/pd_323782-29422-ADC10G4WW_0__?Ntt=323782&UserSearch=323782&productId=3355602&rpp=32

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[ November 23, 2013, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 24, 2013 07:52 AM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice, It looks to me from checking the website you have given, that the LED lamp may rquire mains voltage as many of the other types available do. Not a great idea for a Baby! Ken Finch.

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted November 24, 2013 02:59 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK...I'm not totally sure what that means. How would an LED get power? Don't they run off of DC? Seems there would have to be some type of AC to DC converter. Are there any other LED lights that can run off a transformer? It just seems like LED would run much cooler.

Could you or someone post a link to a specific LED light that would work for the Baby?

If I go with halogen...will this bulb work? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Phi lips-10-Watt-T3-Mini-Bi-Pin-G4-Base-12-Volt-Low-Voltage-Capsule-Halogen-Light-Bulb-232629/203493643#specifications

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011


 - posted November 24, 2013 05:14 PM      Profile for Ken Finch   Email Ken Finch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice, Me yet again. Looking at the picture of the LED you displayed, it appears to have some circuitry at the bottom of it but the advert does not specify the voltage it runs on. I have just replaced our kitchen mains voltage 50 watt Halogen integral mirror bulbs with LED equivelents with a remarkable decrease in power consumption and equivalent brightness and very little heat. Some versions are dimmable as well. I still think you will be better off using the one on your last post and use a suitable lighting tranformer fitted in the base as Paul has done. If you trawl through the past 9.5 posts you will see my suggestion of making a suitable support for the lamp socket using plastic tubing and bits of plastic plumbing from a D.I.Y.store for a paltry sum. Ken Finch. [Smile]

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted November 24, 2013 10:19 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In this thread it looks like Bob Pucci substituted an LED bulb.... and Paul Adsett did you ever pursue this? I'm just trying to understand in more detail if a LED light can be used...and if so, what specific bulb/light would that be. Also, would it require something other than the 12V step-down tranformer for power. I would like to use the holder adapter I have if possible.

[ November 24, 2013, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bob Pucci
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Westerly,RI
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 25, 2013 05:14 AM      Profile for Bob Pucci   Email Bob Pucci   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice

What I did was purchase a LED light at homedepot in the light department.It was a 110 volt light.I mounted the socket of the led where the pathe bulb goes.Ran the cord out the botton of the pathe and plug it in.You had to do very little modification to the pathe.

I could take a picture,but I don't know how to resize them and upload them.The picture is very bright and no film burning.

Bob

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Janice Glesser
Film Goddess

Posts: 3468
From: Sunnyvale, CA USA
Registered: Sep 2011


 - posted November 25, 2013 01:13 PM      Profile for Janice Glesser   Email Janice Glesser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob...When you say plug it in...are you using the same Pathe power cord with the resistance matte or another power source? I'll pm you with my email address... a picture would be very helpful [Smile]

I bought an 110 LED G4 base light off Ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/200987857604?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l264 9.
It probably won't get to me for a couple of weeks. I thought I'd give it a try. It may not work at all...but since this bulb will fit into my adapter. I just need to make sure it's set up to power it correctly.

[ November 25, 2013, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

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Janice

"I'm having a very good day!"
Richard Dreyfuss - Let It Ride (1989).

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Bob Pucci
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Westerly,RI
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 25, 2013 05:59 PM      Profile for Bob Pucci   Email Bob Pucci   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Janice

I did what Paul said at the beginning of this topic.I took out the resistance matte and put the transformer of the led in there because the led is 12 volts.The other end of the transformer I plugged into a 110 volt outlet.

The difference with my bulb was that there no modifications to the pathe socket.The led fit right in there.

Anyway I'll try and take some pictures tomorrow and send to you.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 25, 2013 06:58 PM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob's LED lighting sounds great. He is using a 12 v LED with a transformer mounted in the base of the Baby, so it is very safe.
Bob, can you post details of the LED light, where you got it ETC.
It seems the perfect solution for the Baby projector.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Bob Pucci
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Westerly,RI
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted November 26, 2013 10:55 AM      Profile for Bob Pucci   Email Bob Pucci   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I purchased both the transformer and led at homedepot.All I did was take out the old bulb and socket and mounted the led in there.No modifications needed.

I bought my led around 4 years ago,so I don't know if they still have that same style.

I mounted the transformer where the resistance matte was and spliced the wires from the led and transformer together.

All you have to do is turn on the bulb and start projecting.You can leave on the bulb when the projector is stopped and it won't burn the film.

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