8mm Forum: Columbia 3 Stooges vs. Blackhawk L&H

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Topic: Columbia 3 Stooges vs. Blackhawk L&H

Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 07, 2011 05:54 PM

Michael D.,

Interesting -- how was image steadiness on the GS projected on the large screen? I have an ST1200, and if the print is good and well lubricated, the image is very steady, but not as steady as my Eiki 3585.

Michael O,

You are right -- all things being equal, the 16mm would have to be sharper, since the pic does not have to be magnified as much.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted March 07, 2011 08:09 PM

Tony,

The GS did not have any problem during projection. The image was steady and smooth.

I have not encountered issues with my two Eiki 3585 machines. I've had better results using film lubricants and it helped a great deal to steady the films in my film library.
The Bell & Howell 1500 series has a three pin claw which ensures stability.

I once had dream to restore a sound reflective vacuum tube cell on a 1930 model Kodascope 16mm projector.

Before the internet, it was unforeseen that online forums would exist to assist film hobbyists. Unfortunately after much searching and 25 years later, I chalked it up as a lost cause. If it was not for a major move between homes, it would have still been in the collection.
Sorry that I let the machine go.

It had the sharpest and most steady image, a variable speed control, and as a projector machines go, it purred as a finely tuned watch.

[Frown]

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 12, 2011 07:32 PM

I find it interesting to examine the list of Stooges shorts Columbia decided to release in 8mm/Super 8. They started out releasing edited silent versions (50 and 200 footers), then went to unedited shorts in Super 8 sound only. To my knowledge, STUDIO STOOPS and WE WANT OUR MUMMY were the only titles released edited in sound editions, in both 8mm and Super 8. I believe PARDON MY SCOTCH is the only title released in both edited (silent) and full-length versions.

For the most part, I think they made a good choice of titles -- they are some of the best Stooges shorts. Obvious omissions are YOU NAZTY SPY, A PLUMBING WE WILL GO, and I'LL NEVER HEIL AGAIN. (These are Stooge fan favorites and usually go for top dollar on eBay in 16mm.) They wisely never released any of the ones with Joe Besser. They did offer a fair amount of the Shemps, which was a good thing, since some of those shorts are very funny. I'm not sure why they released CREEPS instead of THE GHOST TALKS -- the former is a "remake" of the latter, but uses much of the same footage. Most of the edited silent ones should have been released full-length in sound.

Back to picture quality: I have never seen any of the edited versions -- are they as high quality as the full-length ones?

BTW, has anyone seen the "minisodes" that AMC has been showing? They are about 5 minute digests shown to fill out a half hour time slot following a full-length Stooges short. I like them, since it reminds me fondly of the digests most of us collectors enjoy in Super 8.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted March 12, 2011 11:26 PM

Tony,
I have not seen the minisodes. They sound very good.
Agreed, there are 200 footers that should have been released as
complete two reelers.

Whoops, I'm an Indian, is a fun abridgment and it would have been an excellent full length release.

To fill out some missing titles I picked up this title on 16mm, and it's hilarious.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 13, 2011 09:56 PM

"Cash & Carry" was also done very nicely. I have a number of the silent 200'ers and the picture quality is brilliant. Columbia didn't spare any expense on both their silent and sound titles as far as quality is concerned. I have other (non-stooges) titles in both silent and sound editions and they are just as nice as the Castle products I own. Ken was the only vendor I thought "skimped" on the quality from time to time.

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 14, 2011 06:14 PM

I have BUZZIN' AROUND with Fatty Arbuckle, released by Ken Films.
It is silent, 200 feet (about half the original short.) It tells a complete story and if you've never seen the original you wouldn't know it was cut. (But one of the scenes cut is what gives the short its title.) And the picture quality is fantastic!

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John Hourigan
Master Film Handler

Posts: 301
From: Colorado U.S.A.
Registered: Sep 2003

posted March 14, 2011 10:26 PM

Interestingly enough, I have the 50-foot BUZZIN' AROUND digest, and the print quality is totally washed out. Probably one of the worst prints I own.

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 15, 2011 06:09 PM

John,

I didn't know that there was a 50 foot version. Curious if it has any scenes not in the 200 footer? But if the quality is that bad, probably not worth it. (Unless you just got a bad copy.)

I think I only have one 50 footer in my collection -- one of the Columbia Batman's -- BATMAN'S LAST CHANCE. You thread it up, turn on the lamp, turn off the room lights -- next thing you know -- it's over. I never "got" the 50 footers.

Do any of the Stooges 50 footers have scenes not in the 200 foot version?

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 16, 2011 08:10 AM

When I was starting out collecting...it was Standard 8 then...I was probably 11 or 12 years old ..around 1960 or so...I bought the 200 ft version..silent , of course, of the Stooges Dizzy Doctors.....outstanding quality...and I loved the subtitles...white letters on a black background..which made them so much easier to read. Well, when the short was shown on TV I taped the audio on reel to reel tape...and edited the tape ...trying to match the footage ....AND had to add little blank places in the tape because my projector would only go about 20 fps....so I had to have some way to keep things in sync. It was easy doing this on Stooges shorts since they usually had no music score. When i was finished , I was very proud of the results...and ran that film so many times....it had all kinds of lines on it. Columbia's later super 8 sound versions of the stooges films kept up the good quality work.

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted March 16, 2011 05:18 PM

Gary,
You're not alone, I had done the same on an audio cassette.
with Laurel and Hardy, and Abbott and Costello.

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Tony Stucchio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 625
From: New Jersey
Registered: Dec 2005

posted March 16, 2011 06:06 PM

And of course there was Americom...

I only recently discovered that Blackhawk released a 50 foot version of BIG BUSINESS with Laurel and Hardy.

Now what about the Blackhawk silent releases of sound L&Hs -- did they have superimposed titles?

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted March 16, 2011 09:26 PM

The Blackhawk silent releases of the sound editions
did not have superimposed titles. It had caption
cards as a silent film.
Way Out West and Saps at Sea, had minimal caption cards.

It was easy to follow the story and dialog, and when I used
an edited audio soundtrack from their films, all it took was to
press the pause key on the cassette recorder, in order to keep the sound in sync.

The Regular 8mm silent versions of Way Out West (400 feet) and
Saps at Sea (600 feet,) had sharper quality than the Super 8mm full length features.

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