8mm Forum: Film scratching problem ... help!!!

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Topic: Film scratching problem ... help!!!

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 01, 2008 12:02 AM

I think this topic had been discussed a number of times, but I'm flustered.

I was just screening a couple 400ft reels of Woody Woodpecker, and on one of the reels I had a prized very early [print of "Termites From mars" (one of the classics) and a beautifully unfaded pint to. I have only ran it twice ever, and I bought it brand new.

I was concerned when I saw a scratch on ther print as it projected from the last time I watched it, which was on the same projector, my EUMIG 926, which is the most gentle scratch free projector I have ever owned.

There were a number of fresh lines on the print!!! No green ones, but for a person who tries to keep his prints scratch free, it was heart breaking!!

Is it a habit of earlier prints that they scratch easily?

I have never had my Derann prints scfratching at all as they sail through my 926, but I have noticed this habit in some of my earlier Disney 400ft films as well.

Is it just certain prints made on certian stocks that are highly susceptible? If so, what can I do? Is it possible to film guard them somehow to avoid scratches?

HELP!!!!!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Jonathan Sanders
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Bath, England
Registered: Oct 2005

posted January 02, 2008 04:36 AM

I can't really help with this Osi, except to say that when I collected 8mm in the 1970s, I did notice that films from some companies (usually cheaper ones) did get scratched on my projector (also a Eumig then) where as films from other companies like Blackhawk showed little or no scratching on the same machine.

So it could be there is some problem with the Eumig to which your other films are much more resistant. I hope forum members who are more technically expert than me can help you.

Good luck!

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted January 02, 2008 04:45 AM

Osi. I also have a 926 which I use for my scope shows and this has never put a line on my films either. My first GS1200 put lines on films freely and I found that the thickness of the stripe played its part, although the machine was faulty. If it turns out you need guides for the 926 I still have these stocked but I would be surprised if the 926 is to blame.

Open up the sound head pressure pad and give it a clean with suitable cleaner just in case some muck has built up.

Hope it all comes right my friend.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2008 10:19 AM

Hi Osi,
I also have a 926 and I will pass on what I have found out about this machine.
As you know, the 926 utilizes a co-axial reel system and does not have a feed sprocket, instead the film passes through a very small film chute fitted with tiny rollers which twist and displace the film to line up with the top entrance of the film gate. Isolation of the jerk on the film from the claw to the feed spool is accomplished by a tiny roller on a leaf spring.
This sytem introduces several areas of concern for film scratching:

1. The large length of film between the film feed spool and the top entrance roller, can flap up and down and thrash about quite dramatically, particularly towards the end of a 600ft reel. The film can possibly touch the top of the lamp house. To prevent this, I have fitted two extra rollers along the top of the lamp house. This also seems to smooth out the film motion quite a bit.
Photo to follow

2. The little clear plastic cover to the top feed black film chute has some really sharp pointed ends on it that seem to come really close to the film. I was very concerned about the possibility of film scratching at this point, so I filed it back at these edges and smoothed it off.

3. Keep all the little rollers (particularly that flapper roller) and film path in the top and bottom film chutes meticulously clean and polished with Pledge or Favor furniture polish before every show. Same thing for the gate and sound head. As Lee has already said, remove the sound head pressure pad assembly before every show, and blow it out with an air duster. Also clean the little pressure pads (very carefully) with a q-tip and furniture polish.

4. If you are re-winding the film on the 926, make sure that you clean and polish the top rear film chute on the lamp house, and the rewind roller.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 02, 2008 10:59 AM

I'm going to sound REALLY bad here, but here's the question ...

How do i open up the sound head section? I don't have the original manuel.

Lee, I might need to call you up on that, (those thingy's you got)

also, could it also be I need to doubly make sure that I coat these older Castle prints with a good film lubricator?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted January 02, 2008 11:12 AM

Just for interest, has anybody tried modifying a 926 and add a feed sprocket and possibly a proper front arm. This would be a major modification but could be an interesting challenge. I also have a 926 but havent used it much lately. I personally dont like sprocketless projectors which is the reason I havent used it much.

If not you could just buy a 938 [Big Grin]

Graham S

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted January 02, 2008 11:37 AM

Osi.
Lay the projector on its back.
Remove the front gold cover.
Just under the soundhead you will see the black pressure pad.

Under that you can see a red locking bolt. This red bolt rotates to enable the black pad to lift out for cleaning, and you can also clean the stereo heads once this black pad is removed.

If you have lost the correct little Eumig tool to rotate this bolt you can spring it open with a very small driver or better a plastic stick.

TAKE YOUR TIME MY FRIEND TO CHECK IT OUT.

Best
Lee.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 02, 2008 01:55 PM

thanks immensely Lee,

i have noticed that occasionally, the sound has vacillated between good and bad, when i know he soundtrack of he film is perfect.

Now, wait until i play my my stereo films!!

(I really wish i knew as much as I think i do about projecors.)

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2008 02:50 PM

Hi Graham,
Since the 938 is essentially the same projector as the 926 with a feed sprocket (but also with 800ft spool arms and 150 watt lighting) I had seriously considered having a go at fitting a top sprocket to my 926 and adding a front spool arm. But then I managed to get hold of a mint 938 and put the project aside. Nice to know though that in my two 926's I have a whole set of spare parts for my wonderful 938! [Wink]

Osi,
Here is the page from the Eumig 926 manual about cleaning the projector and sound head:

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 02, 2008 07:04 PM

Muchas, MUCHAS GRACIAS!!

OZ

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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