8mm Forum: Are the film stocks used today more scratch resistant?

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Topic: Are the film stocks used today more scratch resistant?

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 26, 2008 12:07 PM

The question says it all.

I have collected numerous vintage mint condition prints over the years and found that they scratch VERY easily, while I have run my Derann's over and over again, and yet, they still look great.

Is it merely a mater of film stock drying over time? is this inevitable with all stocks, or are the film stocks manufactured today, truly more scratch resistant?

Any opinions?

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

posted March 26, 2008 12:46 PM

Hi,

some thoughts:
a) Polyester based stocks are more scratch resistant than acetate based stocks. Many/Most Derann prints are made on polyester based stocks while many/most older prints by Universal8, Ken, ... aren't.
b) You can apply a special coating to prevent scratches. Some/Many/All of these coating decay over the time and are easier to scratch. Sometimes only the coating is scratched even though it looks like the film is scratched. You can remove such a coating by cleaning the film. I haven't got a clue who used/uses which coating when.
c) Some of the film stocks "dry out". That's why there are products like FilmRenew, Vitafilm, ... . Some of these products claim to remove scratches - and some of these even work [Wink]

d) Scratches happen.

Jörg

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Graham Sinden
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1131
From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted March 27, 2008 05:47 PM

I think a lot of it is down to when you buy a new £300 feature from Derann or Classic, you make doubley sure your projectors film path is extreemly clean and there are no sharp edges sticking out anywhere. Most people also run a test film and constantly inspect the film on the take up spool. I myself use a small torch and check the film at various points to see if it touches certain areas (those green guides and black tensioner on the GS1200 [Mad]

). Only when Im happy would I lace up that prized print. I also clean the gate area with a cotton bud and solvent cleaner)

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 27, 2008 06:08 PM

I love the English Language!

You wrote "small torch" and my American mind translated "propane" instead of "flashlight"!

I'm with you though, I give my machines the "torch" treatment weekly.

When I get a new machine, the road to being trustworthy is long and verrry cautious.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted March 27, 2008 07:39 PM

With all the films I watch, I'm surprised that I NEVER thought of running a test film before screening a prized film print!

thanks!!

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006

posted March 28, 2008 04:28 AM

Kodak even sells a "Scratch Test Leader" (unfortunately only for 35mm):

7000 8927477 Scratch Test Leader SO-297 35mm/1000' Fogged

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/supply/misc.jhtml?id=0.1.4.12.62.8&lc=en

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Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted April 06, 2008 03:12 PM

Another issue that definitely has changed over the years is lubrication. I am told that the now defunct Kodak processing plants always put some sort of lubrication on the film after processing, so all our old Kodachrome would have benefitted from this. I don't know of any current labs that do this, and know of one for sure that doesn't! So we're on our own.

Do Derann prints come lubricated? I don't think so, but that's observation and a guess.

So that would certainly add to scratchiness if left ignored.

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Mal Brake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Neath, South Wales, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 06, 2008 05:07 PM

Derek at Derann urged customers of new prints to lubricate them before running the films through projectors.
He referred to fresh prints as being 'green' (nothing to do with colour) liable to pick up specks of dust more easily leading to scratching. Derek also said untreated films could cause wow on the soundtrack.by not running smoothly through m/c's. Feedback from customers at the time indicated that the 1200 HD had particular wow problems with new untreated films.
Mal

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I'm gonna live forever or die trying

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