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Topic: maintenance of a GS 1200 Xenon

Jean-Philippe Rolland
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Paris France
Registered: Dec 2004

posted April 07, 2008 08:31 AM

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Dear All,

I have bought a GS 1200 Xenon a few years ago. It was hardly used. I did not use it much myself. Everything seems to be working fine but I am wondering what usual and basic tasks I should carry out to keep it in good repair.

The neophyte I am will welcome any advice

Many thanks

All best

Jean-Philippe Rolland

--------------------
Jean-Philippe

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 08, 2008 02:56 AM

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Others will no doubt have better advice to give than I but I find the best way to keep them running sweetly is to use them occasionally. If I leave one for several months I find they can develop problems. A bit like classic cars really.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 08, 2008 05:00 AM

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More of a question than anything else regarding Xenon lamps, is there some means on the GS1200 of keeping a record of the lamp hours?, and are you increasing the chance of lamp explosion by using them well past there recomended life?, what does a lamp cost? and how long is its life? I dont own a Xenon projector but was wondering how owners of them get on, I look after the 35mm projectors at work and we keep log books on the Xenon lamps fitted to projectors and change them at the time recomended by the lamp manufacturer. Is it something that owners need to be aware of or not regarding Super8 as to the dangers of Xenon lamps in general.

Graham.

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Maurice Leakey
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From: Bristol. United Kingdom
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posted April 08, 2008 09:10 AM

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How many owners of Xenon lamp projectors have the required clothing to use when changing lamps. I know this sounds silly but has anyone seen a Xenon lamp explode?

--------------------
Maurice

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1085
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: Jun 2004

posted April 08, 2008 10:05 AM

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I know there's serious risk regarding xenons exploding. I have two Elf 2000A 16 mm projectors and these use 300w xenons. Basically, you need a welder-type face mask and even a chemistry lab-type apron in case these lamps were to shatter during changing. I've heard the pressure inside these lamps is several atmospheres! You don't want to drop one of these! However, whilst they're installed in the machine (usually designed to take the force of an exploding lamp) you're unlikely to get hurt if the unthinkable happens. But let's not exaggerate by offering scary stories about audiences being showered with glass. This wouldn't happen, though they may be shocked at the noise of the explosion. I heard one collector talking about a time when the xenon blew at Blackpool whilst The Late, Great Derek S. was showing film. Take care when carrying xenon projectors...and even more care when lamp-changing, and you'll be okay.

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Graham Ritchie
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From: New Zealand
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posted April 08, 2008 01:48 PM

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Just as an example on 35mm, if a lamp manufacturer rates the lamp for 2000 hours we can exceed that but only up to one and a quarter its recomended life which makes it about 2500 hours after that point the risk of explosion they say increases, although Xenon lamps are contained in the projector they can do a lot of damage, in 35mm they can destroy a very expensive mirror, at work I wear all the safty gear when changing them and treat those lamps with great respect even in there cold state, so how does all this reflect to the lamps used in Super8 or 16mm projectors? how do you keep a record of lamp life?

Graham.

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Graham Sinden
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From: Kent, UK
Registered: Aug 2005

posted April 08, 2008 04:17 PM

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Just a question, but does the HTI lamp have the same risks or are they safer?

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 08, 2008 06:14 PM

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And don't forget about video projector lamps, which are pressurized to 200 atmospheres!

http://www.ercservice.com/lamps/philips/PhilipsUHPLamps.html
http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec%20Sheets/Philips%20UHP120.htm

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Paul Adsett
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posted April 08, 2008 06:16 PM

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And don't forget about video projector lamps, which are pressurized to 200 atmospheres, or 3,000 psi!

How do you dispose of the lamp! [Eek!]

[Eek!]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 09, 2008 07:45 AM

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These are all very interesting questions and I for one have no idea how many hours the lamp in my GS has been running in total. There is no facility on the GS for totting up lamp hours but I'm sure that a timer could be incorporated into the GS which would count up while the lamp is running.
I have changed a few of the xenon lamps and it seems to be they get bad at striking before the lamp is so worn out that it could explode. They are changed from the annoyance factor of difficult striking.
The lamps are the same as any other xenon lamp just smaller than your average cinema machines lamp so the same safety precautions should be observed and the same rules about life would apply.
I would think the same goes for the HTI lamps. Any lamp which is under pressure carries the same risk of explosion as is any lamp which has a vacuum or negative pressure such as the std CRT we watch most evening. Handling has to be carried out sensibly.

I never move my GS until the lamp is extinguished and cooled down and try not to knock the machine while it is running.

I thought this was an interesting read: Short arc lamp safety

I'm not sure of the GS 1200 xenon's expected lamp life. Does anyone have that info?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Philippe Rolland
Junior
Posts: 20
From: Paris France
Registered: Dec 2004

posted April 09, 2008 08:28 AM

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Thank you very much for these fruitful information.

Last weekend I removed the dust, in a gentle way but with a small compressor though. I must have been out of my mind all the more as it was not very dusty anyhow.

I am lucky that the bulb did not burst.

I think I will buy a S 940 by Eumig to spare the GS, if I can find one.

There is one in Austria but it is too expensive, ie 450 euros.

Have a nice day

Jean-Philippe

--------------------
Jean-Philippe

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Alan Rik
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From: New York City, NY, USA
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posted April 09, 2008 09:02 AM

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No need to spare the GS! Just keep using it..that's what it was designed for and enjoy the pure white Xenon light. [Smile]

[Smile]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 09, 2008 11:48 AM

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I agree with Alan. I have a spare lamp by me just in case.

Superior Quartz have the lamps if you need a spare. Yes we talk about exploding lamps but that is not an everyday occurrence.

I used to have a std GS with the 200W ESC lamp but after owning the GS Xenon I never used the std machine...I wonder why?
Once you see your films with a Xenon light source you will never want to see them with a tungsten lamp as they will look dim, dirty and yellow.

Enjoy that GS Xenon. Just keep the film path clean and check the various film guides for wear and all will be ok.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Clive Carmock
Film Handler

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From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2005

posted April 09, 2008 06:05 PM

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I'm not sure if this is actually right, but might be worth further investigation. I have read that the smaller power Xenon lamps are much less likely to suffer an explosion than the larger ones used in 35mm machines. If that's the case then the 250W Xenon in a GS1200 shoudl be reasonably safe. I must admit if changign it I still would be careful to protect myself as much as possible.

LIke Kevin I too have a spare lamp for my GS which I got from Superior Quartz. Kev am I right in saying they are now the only source of lamps suitable for a GS1200?

I believe they manufacture them specially for this machine. I think the Elmo 16mm Xenon machines used the same lamp ?

Clive

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Simon McConway
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Doncaster, UK
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posted April 10, 2008 01:59 AM

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After all that talk about GS1200 Xenons, I'd like to buy one. Can anyone sell me one?

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

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From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 10, 2008 05:41 AM

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The smaller the xenon the longer the life. We get only about 800 hours out of our 5,000 watt xenons, but smaller lamps of less than 2,000 watts can last several thousand hours.

The 350 watt in the GS 1200 would have a rated or warranted life of around 2500 hrs at an estimate. The bulb supplier will have this information on the papers sold with each xenon.

One thing to remember with xenon arc lamps as opposed to QI lamps is that their light output deteriorates from day one and continues to degrade with every usage hour. They will not blow in the way regular QI lamps in most Super 8 projectors do.

Without knowing your usage hours it is therefore difficult to know when to change it. All 35mm and 16mm lamphouses have hour counters. If you have had the same xenon GS 1200 for over 10 years and never changed the lamp; replace it and you may be amazed at how much your light output had dropped over the years!

David

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Simon McConway
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posted April 10, 2008 05:52 AM

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On my Elf, the paperwork says the Xenon will keep up to 99% of its original brightness until the day in fails.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

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From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 10, 2008 06:05 AM

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I believe that Keith Wilton had one of the 250W GS xenon lamps blow at the BFCC some years back. I have to say that I wasn't there to witness this spectacular event.

I changed a Xenon lamp for another member on the forum recently whose GS1200 was becoming a real pain to strike. The striking time is very important because if the power supply keeps ticking over trying to strike the lamp it can cause the power supply to fail. Anyway the difference in light output was quite amazing and needless to say the owner was over the moon with the increased brightness. My own machine normally has the lamp up and running within a second or two but this machines new lamp was virtually instant.

I have a spare genuine Elmo replacement lamp but it doesn't have any paperwork to say what the lamp life is. I always understood it to be on average about 2000hrs and I know mine is nowhere near that yet.

Putting a counter on the GS wouldn't be too hard a job to accomplish but it would be difficult to find the space in the machine to mount it. These xenon machines a fairly full inside.

Anyway I would just use your machines and enjoy that super bright white light which really makes the colours pop off the screen especially the Derann Disney's [Smile]

[Smile]

Yes Clive, Superior are the only makers of a lamp for the GS and yes its made specially. It's nice to know we still have a supply of them available. [Smile]

[Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004

posted April 10, 2008 02:58 PM

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Btw Kevin, do you remember those lamp changing instructions?? Whenever you find some time.. [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

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Jean-Philippe Rolland
Junior
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From: Paris France
Registered: Dec 2004

posted April 10, 2008 04:10 PM

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Thanks to Kevin, I was in touch with a very nice guy from Superior Quartz.
He asked me to remove the bulb, measure it and take a snapshot so that I can order a spare one. There are two lengths available.
He also mentioned that should the bulb explode, it would not cause much harm or damage because of its small seize.
I forgot to ask him the 'life expectancy' of such a bulb but I will do it next time.
by the way, there is a nice GS -not the Xenon version- available in a thrifty shop in Paris. It is like new against 450 euros.

Have a nice evening

Jean-Philippe

--------------------
Jean-Philippe

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Patrick Walsh
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From: Christchurch, New Zealand
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posted April 10, 2008 05:55 PM

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I have had a xenon explode on me before, It was a 7kw in a KINOTON FP30D 35mm projector, I was working as a projectionist at a 8 screen multiplex, and one night while running the film ROBOTS the thing exploded, it took all the inside of the lamphouse and mirror with it also the heat filter between the lamphouse and projector head, also scorched the lino floor around the projector with the glass flying everywhere and it made a hell of a boom, The lamp was not old but we worked out it must of been the lightning storm outside that caused it to blow, a sudden rise in the mains to the lmaphouse may of caused it we think????.
As Graham and the others said a mask and a saftey jacket and gloves is a must.
still prefer carbons though for 35mm presentations [Smile]

[Smile]

a more natural light [Smile]

[Smile]

Pat

--------------------
"Raise The Titanic!", It would of been cheaper to lower the Atlantic!

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 10, 2008 06:25 PM

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Glad that helped you Jean P.

Dimitrios, Sorry I forgot once again. I will sort that info for you this weekend. I seem to get too involved with Elmo repairs etc these days and forget the other things I need to do.

You have my email address just keep reminding me [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Dimitrios Kremalis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Athens - Greece
Registered: Oct 2004

posted April 16, 2008 05:12 PM

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Mr. Elmo perhaps this weekend? [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 16, 2008 06:19 PM

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I'll try my best for you. [Wink]

[Wink]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Stanley
Junior
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From: Pinewood UK
Registered: Apr 2008

posted April 17, 2008 05:02 AM

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The Xenon lamps we have in our 35mm machines here reach around 5900 deg and the end life of a Xenon is when the UV output has decreased around 30%. Xenon lamps should be changed when you have used over 25% of this to be on the safe side and yes we have seen them blow. Thats the technical stuff from one of our technicians here who I asked this morning about these type of lamps.

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Lets get Lee back on the Forum action group!

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