8mm Forum


  
my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» 8mm Forum   » 8mm Forum   » Go Away, Aurora Borealis! (projection problem)

- UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Go Away, Aurora Borealis! (projection problem)
Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008

- posted August 30, 2008 09:27 PM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, so I've officially got my first super-8 projector, take-up reel, and films! I sat down tonight to screen my first film... and I seem to be experiencing some technical difficulties.

I can focus the image enough to see what's going on (mostly), but it seems like the image is being overshadowed by bright lights around the 'box' that the image is in. When watching a color film it looks a bit like the aurora borealis (hence the thread title).

Any ideas what could be causing this? Am I correct in thinking that there shouldn't be be bright lights over-shadowing the image? Do I have a lens problem? Possibly a lamp problem? Am I projecting the image onto the wrong type of surface? Has it become apparent that I don't have any clue what I'm doing??

Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged
Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 30, 2008 10:15 PM      Profile for Steve Klare   Email Steve Klare   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow,

I live more than 500 miles north of you and have never seen the aurora borealis!

I've never heard of a problem like this. It's acceptable for a a little light to leak up above the projector and to the side, but 100% of the light through the lens and on screen should be through the gate, and the image on film is no smaller than the gate itself, so there should be nothing but darkness other than the image.

Can you get to your gate and see that it's just a little rectangle no more than about 1/4" wide? It sounds almost as if you are missing a part in there!

--------------------
All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

 |  IP: Logged
Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008

- posted August 30, 2008 10:46 PM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 'gate' is the box that the image appears within... correct?

If so, yeah, behind the lens it's just a little rectangle. All of the parts seem to be there.

 |  IP: Logged
Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 30, 2008 11:19 PM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dan Lail is a good guy from Loganville Georgia. Yep he's a member here, too. Maybe if not to far you to guys should connect and he might be able to help you out. Just a thought. I hope I am not interfering with Dan's private life.....probably not the case....lol.....how many of us reely have a life?

[Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged
Steven J Kirk
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 873
From: Southern England
Registered: Apr 2008

- posted August 30, 2008 11:25 PM      Profile for Steven J Kirk   Email Steven J Kirk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is the projector and lens? Make and model - do they match?

--------------------
VistaVision
Motion Picture High-Fidelity

 |  IP: Logged
Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted August 31, 2008 02:41 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Condensation in the lens?

--------------------
Maurice

 |  IP: Logged
Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008

- posted August 31, 2008 10:05 AM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The projector is a Bell&Howell 357b. The lens says... "BELL & HOWELL 18MM-30MM f/1.6 LENS MADE IN JAPAN"

If my problem is condensation in the lens, is that fixable?

 |  IP: Logged
Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 31, 2008 10:48 AM      Profile for Paul Adsett     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Maurice is right, the problem is probably the lens. First thing I would do is clean it. Look thru the lens from both sides while holding it up to the light - does it look clear? If not, go to a photo shop and get some lens cleaning solution and lens wipes. You will then be able to clean the outer surfaces of the glass. If there is condensation inside the lens, then you probably need to get another lens.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

 |  IP: Logged
Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

- posted August 31, 2008 12:48 PM      Profile for Osi Osgood   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Talk about lightning striking twice!

I hav a favorite lense I use to visually inspect films, and I accidentilly dropped it in the sink, (with water in it) and though I dried out the lense, I was stunned at just how long the lense contained, (almost like a vaccum) moisture in there.

My lense is one of those "zoom" lense varieties, and I noted that there were some screws, very small, on the two sides of the lense, I unscrewed these and the top half of the lense came off, completely revealing the "moisture" on the lense! I took a non scratching cloth and dried it all up, screwed back in the
top part of the lense, and now the lense is good as new, actually a little better, as the dust is no longer is there either, so I have a better view!

I hope that this helps.

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

 |  IP: Logged
Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008

- posted August 31, 2008 04:18 PM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm... I seem to have found my answer by way of an ebay seller who sells replacement lenses...

quote:
What's the matter, Bunky? You bought a projector on auction that was "untested with film but seems to work?" And the image is fogged and blurry so you can't tell if you are looking at a baby or a buffalo?

The problem is that many Bell & Howell zoom lenses were made with some silicone goo on the moving sleeves inside to give nice smooth zooming action. With time and heat, the goo has migrated to the glass surfaces so the resulting image is about like looking through a frosted bathroom window. The remedy is to take the lens apart and clean the many glass elements in multiple moving and stationary groups, trying to remember which side of each element faced forward, after which (unless you are a lens repairman) you will likely never get it back together correctly again.
He's right about the goo... that was the first thing I noticed when I opened up the lens. I may have to just bite the bullet and grab on of this guys lenses. I took mine apart and cleaned every surface that I can get to... but to no avail. Though, there are two lens surfaces that I haven't figured out how to get to yet... so I still have that to try.

BTW, those people who warn you about buying an untested projector may actually be on to something! [Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged
Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted August 31, 2008 11:16 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all,

I think what Charles' problem is exactly waht I ask here.

Unfortunately from what the suggestions given in the abpve link, none of them was successful to fix the probelm. My ST1200 is still showing the same problem (ghosting/aurora).

Charles, please don't buy a new lens. It is expensive than your projector's price. I have clean-up all the lens and now they are crystal clear, but the aurora is still there. I don't know why .

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

 |  IP: Logged
Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008

- posted September 01, 2008 12:20 AM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
^ Looking at your thread, I think we're having different problems. When I projected mine onto the screen there was no solid box... just a big blur of colors with a faint square image in the middle. I couldn't even read the text on the screen.

But... as it turns out I don't have to buy a new lens! I was able to clean mine enough to be usable. I wound up using a flattened Q-Tip to get into the inner lens surfaces and wipe away the gunk/moisture/whatever that was screwing up the image. Now, this probably isn't the preferred lens cleaning method... but it saved me $15 today (which as Winbert pointed out is nearly what I paid for the projector) so I'll take it.

Another question... is it normal for the images on the screen to be moving a bit slow.... and should the projector smell a bit hot as it runs? Or am I now going to have a motor/belt issue? I haven't screened an entire film yet, but I'm going to try that tonight.

I'll let you know if my projector bursts into flames. [Wink]

 |  IP: Logged
Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

- posted September 01, 2008 01:55 AM      Profile for Bill Brandenstein   Email Bill Brandenstein   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That projector uses a very hot bulb - not a halogen, but big bad ol' tungsten filaments. So any dust and so forth near the heat ought to smell a little bit.

As for slow, well, it's an 18fps-only projector, so anything shot at 24 will look a bit labored. So is it slow, or is it SLOW?

 |  IP: Logged
Charles Bramlett
Junior
Posts: 25
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Registered: Aug 2008

- posted September 01, 2008 03:00 AM      Profile for Charles Bramlett   Email Charles Bramlett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
^ You're probably right.

I just finished screening my first film from start to finish! What fun! It was from WALT DISNEY'S original feature THE STORY OF ROBIN HOOD: "Robin Hood of Sherwood Forest".

It is a 200ft reel and ran about 10-12 minutes. The characters were moving slower that what would seem normal... but not so slow as to indicate a major problem. Also, the film speed seemed to remain constant throughout. So, I'm going to assume that this is normal until I see any other indicators of a problem.

Thanks to all for your help. I'm learning a lot!

 |  IP: Logged
Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted September 01, 2008 09:54 AM      Profile for Chip Gelmini     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I learned a lesson long ago.....

I was watching super 8 silent digests from major movies. My brother happened to comment the actors seemed to be moving slower than normal.

Years later, I realized these films were made for sound at 24fps. The silent digests were made for the silent super 8 machines, at 18 fps.

Likewise, speed seemed consistent throughout, yet seemed slower in general. There you go.

CG

 |  IP: Logged


All times are Central  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
- Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2