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Topic: Universal Horror Classics

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 24, 2008 01:56 PM

Can you 8mm chaps tell me how many of these were released in feature length on S8 and who released them?

-Mike

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Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 26, 2008 07:12 PM

In a related question: I have a very nice Bride of Frankenstein full length feature but it's on 800' Elmo reels so I can't tell who the distributer is... Does anyone know the origin of these prints? As far as official Universal Horror releases... there aren't many I'm aware of except for the recent prints struck by CHC. In fact, sadly, I don't think Universal put out any horror/monster features during super 8's heyday.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 27, 2008 03:56 AM

Thanks Brian.

I've been thinking about getting into S8 for a while and just trying to see whats available. As far as I have been able to see there are way more titles available in 16mm - maybe I'll just stick with it. S8 appears to be cheaper for whats available, but, that seems to be the only advantage.

-Mike

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Paul Spinks
Master Film Handler

Posts: 453
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted December 27, 2008 07:36 AM

I've got two Lon Chaney Jr. features on Super 8, "Man Made Monster" and "The Mummy's Curse". Both are on 2X600ft reels in plain white boxes from an unknown source. The overall quality is quite good. I used to have the CHC "Dracula" with Bela Lugosi on 4X400ft reels but I sold it on when I got it on 16mm.

Paul.

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 27, 2008 10:04 PM

There are Pros and Cons to 16mm vs.8mm..... The ones I have discovered are as follows....

8mm - Less expensive
- Ability to re-record mono soundtracks to stereo
- Risk of losing the audio track by accident or over time
- Less storage space is utilized
- 8mm was marketed for the collector therefore many titles
were issued "library" packaging with very attractive
artwork and cover designs.
- Projectors are rather quiet when in use
- Projectors are often not serviceable and it's becoming
increasingly difficult to find any in tip-top condition.
- Local federal agents couldn't care less about what you own
since titles were licensed for home exhibition and often
only contained excerpts and were not complete features

16mm - Better picture quality and bigger picture overall
- No risk of de-magnetizing the audio or having it
dissipate over time
- No balance stipe is needed to have the film run without
risk of jumping or jitters
- Larger title selections to choose from
- Projectors are often serviceable by many credible
individuals who can replace worn parts with new ones and
not refurbished elements that may or may not last as
long
- Since 16mm was not sold as a home/collectors format and
often intended for rental exhibition or tv station use,
there's more likelihood that prints are in questionable
condition (not every print comes from a collector who
made concerted efforts to keep prints in optimum shape)
- Very bulky and take up alot of space
- Projectors are noisier overall when in operation
- The local feds may do a 'Roddy McDowell' seizure of your
prized collection should they have nothing better to
do with their time
- Very expensive. You definitely have to have enough
liquid capital to build a decent collection and be able
to afford the equipment necessary to run your film

I collect both and enjoy both formats equally, but when it comes down to $ - 8mm is the route to take.

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Paul Spinks
Master Film Handler

Posts: 453
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted December 28, 2008 09:41 AM

Hi Brad,
I do agree with you regarding the pros and cons of of collecting films on 16mm. Modern Super 8 prints surpass 16mm in picture and sound quality every time. The classic MGM features released on Super 8 a few years ago were simply stunning, and a 16mm print of those titles in that quality would cost somewhere in the region of $1000-$1500. My "Dracula" on Super 8 was printed on colour stock and was a little darker than it should be. The 16mm print is much clearer and on black and white stock so is a better print overall. I also agree with you regarding the limitations of the optical soundtracks on 16mm. We watched a 16mm film last night and the 3rd reel was out of synch by about 1 second. There's no way of fixing that. [Frown]

Paul.

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Joe Caruso
Film God

Posts: 4105
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 28, 2008 10:27 AM

How can the audio be de-magnetized by mistake?

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Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005

posted December 28, 2008 12:05 PM

From experience you will be lucky to find a Universal Horror on 16mm which is an original or in good condition. As most of these titles where duped many times over the years.

I would say the best quality by far is the Universal 8 edited 400ft versions surpass any print on 16mm with exception to an original negative 16mm or 35mm printing of course.

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Paul Spinks
Master Film Handler

Posts: 453
From: Barking, Essex, UK
Registered: Mar 2006

posted December 28, 2008 12:37 PM

Those Universal 8 400ft digests are indeed very good. I just wish that they had released them in 2X400ft editions as they would then have been really excellent.

Paul.

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 28, 2008 12:52 PM

As for which Titles are available on Super 8. I have owned the following on SUPER 8.
THE OLD DARK HOUSE (LOOKS LIKE 16 MM, PERFECT PRINT, still have it)
BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN (dupe looking)
THE WOLF MAN ( DUPE LOOKING)
MUMMY's CURSE (DUPE LOOKING)
MAN MADE MONSTER ( DUPE LOOKING)
HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN ( DUPE LOOKING)
ABBOTT and COSTELLO MEET FRANKIE (nice print from CHC)
GHOST OF FRANKENSTEIN (Another nice print from CHC)

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 28, 2008 01:16 PM

Robert,

Are those features or digests?

I am aware that there were a lot of digests of these movies in S8. I am only interested in features.

-Mike

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 28, 2008 01:34 PM

Hi Mike,
Those are indeed FEATURES!
yrs, Rob

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted December 28, 2008 07:07 PM

Have to be honest I gave up looking in 8 or 16mm for the digests a whie ago, you can get 2 features for around £6 in a 2 dvd set and the picture quality and sound through a modest VP is beautiful and very filmic if you will.
Though I do miss the charm of the film versions.
Best Mark.

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 28, 2008 07:54 PM

I agree it's INSANE when it comes to finding the Universal Classic monster films on ACTUAL film. For years I only had 1 film an original print of "The Mummy's Hand", Not that i wasn't trying. It seemed most of the prints i did find were DUPES. Terrible compared to an Original print. Then One day, I lucked out on Ebay. Bought an AMAZING pristine print original print of BRIDE OF FRANKIE, after screening it. i was HOOKED! WOW! BEATS any video format. The print was flawless, I then threw it out into the universe that I longed for all the Monster classics. Then POW! Next day, i received a call from someone who was selling his collection. he had ALL of them, except FRANKENSTEIN and MUMMY's GHOST. I worked out a deal on a monthly thing. Several months later and the price of a small foreign car, I am now missing only those two titles.
Lesson is
To own these gems on 16 mm, someone needs to INHERIT the films OR the owner needs to see hard times.
I wonder why don't collectors let go of these titles? They do seem IMPOSSIBLE to find.
BY THE WAY, I am ALSO LOOKING FOR Karloff's THRILLER episodes. Thought I'd throw it out into the Universe, hey, it worked once before!

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 28, 2008 09:58 PM

Joe I was referring to the fact that because the audio on 8mm is actually recorded onto a small strip (stripe) of magnetic audio tape that is then affixed to the side of the film - the audio can actually dissipate over time (much the same way audio cassettes and reel-to-reel tapes can), become degauzed from use or by accidentally storing them too near an appliance that emits an electromagnetic field. If you leave a recording tape too near to a television, your vcr/dvd player, or even too close to the fridge or microwave, over time, the audio can suffer maladies such as drop outs or you can get "rice krispies" type noises during playback.

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 29, 2008 01:26 PM

Brad..
I began collecting Regular 8mm sound back in 1965 or so...and still have somie of those Castle and Blackhawk films...with no degradation of soundtracks. I then went into Super 8 when it came out and again....no problem with soundtracks. Also...I have several Super 8 Hammer features and James Bond features..plus Indiana Jones and Alien...all of which have been re-recorded in stereo...with stunning results....which are far far better than their 16mm counterparts. Also..on some of those titles , the prints were sharper....and the color nicer than my 16mm prints of the same subjects...so in some cases I've gotten rid of the 16 versions.

But I also have to agree with many on this thread that Universal features on 8mm are scarce...and are likely to be dupes themselves from 16mm. Your chances of picking up nice dupes or reductions of the Universal monster classics are far higher in 16mm...and for reasonable prices. Originals in 16mm are out there, but much more expensive. Some of the reductions are excellent, however....and you can hardly tell them from originals.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 29, 2008 01:38 PM

All of my Universal Horrors in 16mm are dupes or in the case of BRIDE a reduction.

I do have a nice original TV print of WEREWOLF OF LONDON.

I know of a collector in the US who is selling his originals - for WAYYYYYYY too much money. I wish I could....... [Frown]

-Mike

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 29, 2008 06:53 PM

Hi Mike,
Would the collector happen to have MUMMY's GHOST or the ORiginal FRANKIE? Love to get a hold of those two.
Thanks, Rob

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 29, 2008 11:44 PM

It's amazing to me that we love are precious film so much and many of the titles we've acquired over the years become so dear to us we wouldn't dream of parting with them. However, isn't it peculiar that we still hold on to prints that have colors beet red and are a humiliation just looking to go somewhere and happen? I have many like this - yet as bad as they are and even though I have many of these titles in glorious dvd - I still wouldn't give up the inferior colored 8mm. We just love our film, dont' we?!

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Robert Aragon
Master Film Handler

Posts: 264
From: Santa Fe
Registered: Mar 2004

posted December 30, 2008 12:31 AM

I would say YES we do Love our film. At times i feel as if I was one the keeper of the "flame". Especially, since most if not all of my collection is made up of titles before the Star Wars era. It's evident we are drawn to what first struck a sense of wonder. For me it was the classic "horror" film with the likes of KArloff, Lugosi, Chaney, Price and Lorre...anyone left out? Oh yes, Carradine, Atwill, Rathbone....
they just don't make good films like those anymore.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 30, 2008 02:32 AM

Hi Robert,

The collector is Dan Caprio. You can contact him via the 16mmfilmtalk site.

-Mike

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