8mm Forum: The Story of Ken Films ....

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 08, 2009, 09:24 AM:

There have been some requests, desiring a history of Ken Films. I honestly know very little about it's history, beyond the fact that it seems that they were, to an extant, an "Umbrella" Super 8 company. A number of different studio's were released by Ken films. For instance ...

American International Pictures
Fox Films
Republic Pictures
Paramount
United Artists

They were located in Fort Lee, New Jersey and for awhile, they were the most prolific company. They secured large contracts with major distributors in the retail market, (for instance K-mart), while many of the other companies were limited to camera stores or direct mail order.

They're last hurrah was with the Empire Strikes Back digests, which means that they're demise was around the end of 1981.

Beyond that, I can give little other info on the company, but I'm sure that many others can give far more info on the company.

Who began the company, for instance?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 08, 2009, 11:56 AM:

Osi,

United Artists (UA-8) and Republic Pictures home movie division were not originally part of Ken Films. Bob Lane (President and Founder of Ken) acquired them in the mid – late 1960’s. United Artists also put out Standard 8mm sound editions of their cutdowns, but Ken discontinued that practice. In addition to the UA-8 and Republic library, Ken released silent digests of American International Pictures horror films and cartoons, along with a number of Warner Brothers titles.
In 1973, Ken signed a deal with Paramount to release a large number of 200’ and 50’ silent versions of some of their most popular features, starting with two parters of “The Greatest Show on Earth”, “The Ten Commandments” and “Samson & Delilah”.
Ken Films made the big jump into color and sound in 1974 with 200’ versions of all 5 “Planet of the Apes” movies. That deal with 20th Century Fox resulted in a staggering amount of 400’ releases in early 1975, starting with “The Saint Valentine’s Day Massacre”. Ken also put out a large number of 200’ color/sound American International product during this period.
The highlight of the Ken Films story (and package movie history in general) has to be the Ken release of the 200’ color and sound “Star Wars” while the film was still playing in theaters!
In 1978, Ken and MGM came to an agreement for Ken to distribute selections from MGM’s vast library, starting with “Dr. Zhivago”. This title, along with a number of others, was later released in 3x400’. American International also got the 400’ clamshell case treatment and in the case of “Meteor”, a 3x400’ release.
“The Empire Strikes Back” (Part two) was Ken Film’s last 400’ non-MGM title. Ken released feature length prints into the early 1980's including “The French Connection”, “Casablanca”, “Gone With The Wind”, “Singin' In The Rain” and “2001: A Space Odyssey”. They also distributed the ABC line of features. In the mid 1980’s Bob Lane brought Ken Films to an end, with Derann receiving many of the Ken’s feature negatives.

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 08, 2009, 03:21 PM:

So THATS where my "French Connection" feature print came from!

So, Ken films kept alive into the 80's by just doing features.

Doug, what was the very last feature that Ken Films released, and what features did Derann re-release from Ken Films negatives?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 08, 2009, 04:29 PM:

Osi,

I can't be sure which feature was Ken's last. You've made me curious though, so I checked the May 2007 issue of Small Format which has the eigth installment of John Clancy and Keith Wilton's excellent "Out of the Box" series. They mention that Bob Lane and Derek Simmonds of Derann had "a good relationship that resulted in a 50 copy limited run of "That's Entertainment II" released as a joint venture between Ken Films and Derann". They go on to say Bob Lane did the negotiating on behalf of Derann to obtain negatives for "The Wizard of Oz", "The Three Musketeers", "Meet Me in St. Louis", "Tom Thumb", "Rocky", "Some Like it Hot", "To Have and Have Not", and "Gone with the Wind". The article also says that among the MGM and Fox negatives that went to Derann after Ken Films ended were "Robin Hood", "Casablanca", and "Von Ryan's Express".

Doug

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on November 08, 2009, 05:21 PM:

Wow, I didn't know Ken did that many features. I have Ken's Singin in the Rain, while certainly not a Derann, it's acceptable in my book (for the price I paid for it). I'm guessing when we see these titles on sales lists, we should pay attention to the price? Ken vs. Derann? Would love to see a way to distinguish.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 08, 2009, 07:16 PM:

Here's a recent thread about Ken Films' feature releases.

Doug

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on November 08, 2009, 07:23 PM:

Greg ...

A word of caution though, on purchasing original Ken Films features ...

They were not, from what I understand, printed on L.P.P. stock.
My print of "French Connection", while a superior print, is Kodak SP, and while mint, needs special storage to keep that color pristine. I'm sure that the Derann prints from Ken negatives were on superior stock.

Just to say, have caution as to which "Singing in the Rian", for instance, you buy.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 08, 2009, 08:36 PM:

Osi, some of Ken's are also on AGFA and LPP especially those released after 1980.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on November 09, 2009, 05:36 AM:

Where is Bob Lane today?

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on November 09, 2009, 06:06 PM:

Thought it may be high-time for a book on these little companies that accomplished alot towards the hobby's fruition; Griggs, Carnival, Niles, Excel, Ken, etc

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on November 09, 2009, 09:37 PM:

Here, Here! I'll buy one. And don't forget Select Film Library.

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on November 09, 2009, 10:30 PM:

Did Universal ever release features on S8, or just stuck with the digests?

Posted by John W. Black (Member # 1082) on November 10, 2009, 12:09 AM:

Universal released odd stuff like Richard Pryor in concert,the unfinished journey of Robert F Kennedy,the 12 chapter serial,Pirates Treasure.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 10, 2009, 08:34 AM:

quote:
Did Universal ever release features on S8, or just stuck with the digests?

Greg, that very topic is discussed here:

Universal 8 box for full feature

there is a photo how the Universal 8 full feature was packed.

And also here:

Universal features

[Wink]

cheers,

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on November 10, 2009, 05:56 PM:

Thanks, Winbert! I've learned some new things by reading those. I have never seen a U8 full feature box, like the one of Scarface. Nice.

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 10, 2009, 08:08 PM:

One more link.....a list of all Universal 8 releases.

Doug

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on November 10, 2009, 10:39 PM:

Thanks, Doug!

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on February 07, 2010, 09:12 PM:

OK, I just got a copy of 'The Sound Of Music', and 'Butch Cassidy', both 400' versions. I have to say that both of these prints have kept, I'd say, 65-75%, if not more, of their color... especially TSOM. I checked the stock, thinking they might be SP, but they are both Eastman. I already had a print of TSOM already, all pink, absolutely no color left at all, not even a faint green or red.

Were there different variations of the Eastman stock I'm not aware of?

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 08, 2010, 05:40 AM:

Doug, I'm looking for S8 Silent Ken TEN COMMANDMENTS, Volume 2, can you post a box cover, or might you have one to sell or trade?

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on February 08, 2010, 07:00 PM:

Shorty,

I only have one copy and it looks something like this:

Doug

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on February 08, 2010, 07:28 PM:

I used to love those old "10 Commandments" Ken reels when I was a little kid in the 70's. I seem to recall that the 50' reels had different scenes than the two 200' digests. Maybe my memory's going, but I remember collecting all four reels... but lost them along the way. Maybe it would be fun to have them again... although I keep eyeing the Marketing three reel digest that would be nice to have... the whole movie was too long anyway!

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on February 08, 2010, 09:15 PM:

I have the Marketing 3-parter. No original titles (just the title in white letters against a blue background on each reel). The editing isn't too bad considering that it was a near 3.5 hour movie. The scenes do run fairly quickly and sometimes the audio from one scene runs into the next before fading out. The color isn't bad. It has faded to some degree, but not nearly as bad as my Ken/Columbia or U-8 titles. There's still blues and greens left, but all 3 reels are on the brownish side. If you see it for a resonable price - get it. It's a nice curio to acquire.

Posted by John Skujins (Member # 1515) on February 08, 2010, 09:36 PM:

I used to get those catalogs, the third type pictured, and I still have them. I was a teenager in '79 to '81 so I had little money but I somehow managed to afford (some via xmas & birthdays) Star Wars color silent 200 ft, Alien color silent 200 ft with tape, ESB 400 ft, and ESB part 2. I remember having to decide if I wanted Star Wars part 2 or ESB part 2 because I cold only afford one. I chose ESB part 2 so I could have an 800 ft film of one movie. I really wanted the other one though because of the death star scene! Never got it. Are most of them red now? My ESB part 2 still has great color.

By the way, my Ken Films catalog of features lists French Connection II but not French Connection. Do we have proof that the original was a Ken release?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on February 08, 2010, 10:39 PM:

French Connection was definitely a KEN release. The box had the standard SUPER 8 in the red box at the top of the box and I know I have it in one of my KEN catalogs. It's on Ebay quite alot in the film category.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 09, 2010, 05:28 AM:

Thanks Doug, that's the one I need - You always come through with the right box - I think you were 'Shorty' before me [Smile]

- Stay in touch, the other Shorty

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 09, 2010, 08:38 AM:

Gee, wonder how my ugly face got on here

Posted by Tony Stucchio (Member # 519) on February 09, 2010, 06:56 PM:

quote:
Gee, wonder how my ugly face got on here

My monitor screen just cracked.

Posted by John Hourigan (Member # 111) on February 13, 2010, 11:34 AM:

Great thread! I can thank (or blame) Ken Films for getting me started in this hobby. Riding my bike to K-Mart to buy their 50-foot digests with my allowance and putting on neighborhood films shows. (Still have those 50-foot digests spliced onto 400-foot reels. . . .)

Posted by Greg Marshall (Member # 1268) on February 13, 2010, 05:56 PM:

I know what you mean, John. The Kenner Easy Show PLASTIC projector, with those cartridges, was my very first in the early 70's. I grew tired of that quickly, and discovered the RACK OF FILMS at Woolco. Unfortunately, I grew up in a small town, and no one stocked the films... the Woolco store was in Nashville, and was about an hour from where we lived. A majority of what they stocked were the 50' and 200' films, and multiples of them. They never stocked any of the 400's.... probably a little expensive for alot of people at that time. Not that many color/sound 200's were there, but I do remember getting my Star Wars, Butch Cassidy, and a Mighty Mouse with color/sound. I HAD to have them, though, I did not own a sound projector. Grrrr... the monster ran deep!!!!!

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on February 13, 2010, 06:30 PM:

I started with the 50'ers from Castle that I used to get at a department store called Zayre's in Natick, MA back in the early 70s. Those were The Days!

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 13, 2010, 06:49 PM:

Scobey's Camera Shop in Long Branch NJ had many catalogs and films to go through, but it was from the pages of Famous Monsters of Filmland, and that Captain Company that started me, then the ad in the color-section of the Sunday Ny Daily News that introduced me to a film aclled the Blackhawk Classic Preview-8 Sampler, the rest is history...Shorty

Posted by Brian Hendel (Member # 61) on February 13, 2010, 11:25 PM:

Shorty - I remember ordering those Blackhawk Samplers - one silent and one sound and watching them over and over again. I remember they cost $3.95 each or something like that... I can barely remember what was on them except for Laurel and Hardy in some Western setting... and some skeletons dancing... other than that it's all a blur! There must have been a clip of a Lon Chaney horror film (Hunchback or Phantom) on there somewhere or I wouldn't have been entinced into ordering them.

Posted by Joe Caruso (Member # 11) on February 14, 2010, 07:52 AM:

There were two subjects, the PREVUE-8 and MOVIES THAT TALK & SING

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on May 10, 2010, 10:50 PM:

Where is Bob Lane today and where does the name KEN Films come from? Is it an anacronym derived of other names?

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on October 06, 2010, 09:13 PM:

What titles were released ni 400' silent digests from the UA/KEN catalog? I'm also still curious if anyone knows the answer to my question above this one.

Posted by Mike Casaregola (Member # 2055) on October 07, 2010, 03:30 PM:

I don't know where Bob Lane is but I think the name Ken Films doesn't come from a person or person's name. In the dictionary the word ken means knowledge or understanding.

Posted by Burton Sundquist (Member # 5813) on April 08, 2017, 06:29 PM:

...I am catching up on some of the very well researched histories on the Forum and elsewhere and came across this blog which should be of interest to members Regarding the History of Ken Films: http://westernfictioneers.blogspot.ca/2013/07/super-8-sunset-fade-of-super-8-western.html

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 08, 2017, 08:50 PM:

Wow, what a great read! Thanks for posting that Burton.
Your Western enthusiast friends might like to know that Derann Films in the UK released the full length feature of Shane on super 8mm, and what a fabulous print it is!

Posted by Jeff Missinne (Member # 3373) on April 14, 2018, 09:31 AM:

According to several accounts I've read, Ken Films was named after Bob Lane's then-infant son.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on April 14, 2018, 11:12 AM:

This is a very good thread. I always like reading about the different companies that released our films on super 8.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on April 14, 2018, 12:51 PM:

It's indeed a fun topic to read.
Alsso that link was great reading material.
Is Fuji LPP the only material that keps good quallity.
Agfa is much less?
I ask because I see full features from Agfa sometimes, even Disney features, not sure of Derann as well.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on April 14, 2018, 10:59 PM:

Alfred Hitchcock's Spellbound also a Super 8mm feature release was part of the Selznick library along with the S-8's of Rebecca.

Don't forget that the Ken Films sales list in the '80's was printed "newspaper style" and the MGM releases included Laurel and Hardy's: The Devil's Brother and Bonnie Scotland at the cost of $300.00 for each feature that Derann also printed. James Bond's Dr. No was listed in one issue and never listed again.

Keith Wilton committed himself to The Three Musketeers project in providing the best shot for shot exposure/light settings, and in the UK that's termed: "Grading," and in the USA is: "Timing." Derek said to Keith that the expense to perfect "Musketeers" is becoming more expensive than worthly expected because too much time is devoted to the project, and this dedication is to the delight of collectors, the release is the most stunning on Super 8.

To clarify, Fuji had their low fade stock, and LPP is the low fade film stock only made by Eastman Kodak.

The best Fuji low fade stock is from 1980 and on, otherwise, the previous years of color film stock loses the yellow dye, and the film fades to purple.

UA had the best black and white Standard 8mm negatives taken from the source materials, which produced a gorgeous print down quality that's striking in appearance.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on April 15, 2018, 05:54 AM:

Thank yoou, wow.
So I have to buy Laurel and Hardy from Ua.
From which year is that Tree Musketeers film?
There were a few made.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on April 15, 2018, 12:24 PM:

You have to buy the Laurel and Hardy films of Bonnie Scotland and The Devils Brother from Red Fox Films or Derann Films.

When you find any of these two Laurel and Hardy features, ask if they are printed on black and white film stock and not color film stock because a black and white movie on color film will have a blue and white or green and white appearance.

For instance, there are the MGM Red Fox / Derann prints of The Wizard of Oz, and depending on the film stock the black and white scenes look greenish bluish or perhaps sepia toned. However, the color content in the film is strikingly phenomenal. I would not personally mind sepia-toned on the black and white segments because that's how the film was initially released.

The Three Musketeers is 1948 version printed on Super 8 by Derann Films from the MGM negative and starring Gene Kelly, Van Heflin, June Allyson, Angela Lansbury and Lana Turner as the diabolical Lady de Winter.

When I referenced UA film prints, I was adding to the discussion that the company also made excellent Standard 8mm feature films.

Posted by Joe Vannicola (Member # 4156) on April 15, 2018, 01:05 PM:

The main three companies I bought super 8 films from was Castle, Columbia and Ken. It was an event going to the store or camera shop to get the latest film catalogs. Ken films, unlike Castle or Columbia, placed their catalogs inside the film boxes. So you had to buy one their films in order to get a catalog. Those were the days.

Posted by Robert Statzer (Member # 6708) on November 14, 2018, 02:42 PM:

quote:
In 1978, Ken and MGM came to an agreement for Ken to distribute selections from MGM’s vast library, starting with “Dr. Zhivago”.

What year did MGM launch their own Super 8 division? I'm thinking the earliest I ever saw a display of MGM offerings had to be 1980 or 1981. (Usually Tom & Jerry titles, but sometimes things like THE WIZARD OF OZ or Brando's MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY.)

quote:
I used to love those old "10 Commandments" Ken reels when I was a little kid in the 70's. I seem to recall that the 50' reels had different scenes than the two 200' digests.

I've always wondered why a 50' reel had material not found on the 200' version. (And some 200' reels had material not on their 400' counterpart.) None of the 50' SON OF ZORRO is on the 200' version. (The same thing was going on over at Columbia; the 50' BATTLE IN OUTER SPACE is the battle on the moon, while the 200' version is the aliens attacking earth.)

quote:
OK, I just got a copy of 'The Sound Of Music', and 'Butch Cassidy', both 400' versions. I have to say that both of these prints have kept, I'd say, 65-75%, if not more, of their color... especially TSOM.

My 400' VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA still looks fantastic. Can't say the same for my ONE MILLION YEARS B.C.. (I also have those two 200' reels from ONE MILLION that Walton put out...all footage not found on the Ken Films release. Combining them all would have made for a great 800' reel if it weren't for the color fade on the Ken Films version. My Walton reels still look fantastic.) ]

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on November 17, 2018, 01:44 PM:

Robert,

MGM's first Super 8mm releases came out towards the end of 1978. Their first catalog mentioned that 7 additional Tom & Jerry cartoons would be available in February 1979.

It wasn't too often that the 50 footers had different footage from their big brothers. I was thrilled when I would find that they didn't repeat the same scenes. With Taste the Blood of Dracula, Ken used different subtitles to tell the story in their shorter version and the print is actually better than the 200' release.

Doug

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on November 18, 2018, 03:00 PM:

I have the 200' Singing In The Rain that contains the musical scenes of "Make 'Em Laugh" and "Singing In The Rain."

I also have the 400' Easter Parade and it's excellent because the songs make for the story of the film.

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