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Topic: Elmo ST 1200 auto-thread hesitation problem
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Barrie Didham
Film Handler
Posts: 67
From: Dunedin,New Zealand
Registered: Sep 2009
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posted July 10, 2010 07:58 AM
Roy,im 110% sure the plastic guide is not worn nor the small lug at the end,I had it apart today for a clean and its perfect.
I sure this has to do with the way the takeup sprocket wheel and guide has been made,it has to pull the leader up but most of the time cant get its tooth into the first sprocket hole on the leader,if you try and force it,it tends to rip that hole before it makes a catch and pulls it round.
It seems to be hit or miss with different leaders.
I did find that it helps to bend down slighty the first 1 to 2mm of leader before the sprocket hole,but even then it can still be a royal pain at times.
I,ve never had more then one hole ripped and there are no lines left on the leader or other damage i can see,so i have to rule out everything but bad design.
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Between Heaven and Hell there will always be Super8
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 14, 2010 05:53 PM
1. Looking at this problem we share with these machines, I wonder if sprocket tooth alignment is the problem. If you have ever removed the screw directly on the sprocket wheel, that screw removes a round disc about the size of an American quater. Under that, a sprocket ring with the super 8 sprocket teeth is removed. In theory, when this ring is reinstalled if it is not 100% exact position as it was before removal, simple unalignment could be the problem. So if you are going to remove this part of your machine, make note of position in the off mode before you do remove it, as to reinstall it identically.
2. One thing I've done is to remove a trimmer assembly from a dead machine. Actually, I removed the cover from the projector. Then, I cut out the trimmer from the cover, removing a piece of the cover while keeping the trimmer intact.
I then drilled two holes in this piece of the cover and mounted it with wood screws to the wall next to my crank rewinds. When trimming a reel before a show I do it off the rewinds not on the projectors.
Now you do not have to go as far as I have. If you have an extra machine with a spare trimmer, then put it on the shelf facing you so you have direct access to the trimmer from the front of the machine as compared to working from the side or rear.
Placement of this trimmer on the projector can be difficult to reach. If the film is not aligned correctly within the trimmer, then the cut is not proper and threading problems are more possible.
I cuation all readers they should NOT remove the trimmer from the projector directly, as these can be tricky to reinstall correctly. And, try selecting the earlier 180E or 600D to gain an extra trimmer via cover removal because the covers on these two units are plastic and will cut easier than the casted metal on the higher capacity machines.
My ST1200 models also hesitate on auto threading. But I rarely have the problem since remounting a spare trimmer.
3. While threading all of my machines, I make certain the cover is dropped down and the film path is exposed. I follow the leader as it goes through via autoload. My right hand is on the control knob, ready to stop the machine in the event of a jam. Only when the trimmed section exits the machine behind the lamphouse do I use my left hand to release autoload as included with most st 1200 units. At any point after that I stop to attach to the take up reel, whether using a stand alone machine normally, or with the arms down when the projector is installed on my towers.
4. I also gave up on using standard white leader for threading a long time ago. It doesn't matter who made it or where it came from. I do not use it, period.
Chip Gelmini
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 15, 2010 09:24 AM
I agree with Chip that the white leader is pretty useless stuff It seems to break very easily and my GS just does not like it. I think Chip has resorted to old pieces of film for his leaders, which I think is a good idea for the first couple of feet, and then follow it by a length of black leader.
I do agree that the GS autothreading is not that great, and just look how complex that auto-threading system is - microswitches, relays, solenoids. Too many things can go wrong if there is too much curl on the leader. My Eumig 938 on the other hand always seems to thread flawlessly no matter what I feed it. Bottom line though is that I wish all my machines were manual threaders, like my little Bolex 18-5.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 15, 2010 04:05 PM
That is a great idea, Chip. As long as you have a nice, long, clean piece of film with which to thread up, why not?
Ironically, my Elmo trimmer will cut through just about any film stock.
It's the trimmer on my Beaulieu 780EL that won't! This machine WILL auto-load perfectly IF you give it the precise "Beaulieu cut" leader, which is a different shape to that required by the Elmo! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) And it will not cut through polyester!!
That's why I use brand new Kodak white leader (which I believe is acetate) because my both the Elmo and Beaulieu trimmer will cut it perfectly.
Since I run films on both my Elmo and Beaulieu 708, I find it easier to put Kodak white leader on my prints and let each projector trimmer "eat" at it every time I show it, then replace the leader if and when necessary. As long as you keep an eye on things, this seems the best solution for using prints on both machines.
And Chip, I also run my Elmo up for a good ten minutes before each show, which I also do out of habit, and yet your post has just reminded me that I actually, really, do that!!! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Chip Gelmini
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1733
From: Brooksville, FL
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 15, 2010 04:53 PM
10 minutes seems a bit long, Rob, with all due respect even in cold weather. Unless you aren't running movies every week.
With a five minute warm up, I run just the fan for 2 minutes to flex the rubber belts and shutter shaft wheel bearings; then in forward mode for 3 minutes without film or lamp to loosen the gears and claw.
Summer time weather there's hardly any warm up required, the booth stays about 74 degrees this time of year June-July-August.
After I run a show, the small booth is above 80 degrees at the very end of the show. It's literally a walk in closet for space. Very tight. And there's at least 22 pieces of electrical equipment powered up for a given show, including everything that would be required based on my setup. Power strips, amplifiers; projectors, lamps; booth lights; rewind motors; drive motors; etc. I have two tower fans in the booth, one at the floor and one up high on a shelf for other circulation of air.
cg
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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted July 15, 2010 05:54 PM
You're right Chip, 10 minutes is a long time; I just mean that I have adobted the habit of firing up the Elmo first thing when I know we are having a show.
Then it's time to sort out the reels, amplifier settings, play-in music, etc. by which time the trusty Elmo is hopefully all warmed up and ready to go.
That reminds me, one thing to watch on the ST1200HD is the rapid start-up device for the capstan roller. Since the Elmo capstan is not motor driven, this mechanism is supposed to run the capstan roller up to speed when you put the projector into forward.
I have it on good authority that this is a very unreliable bit of mechanics which often fails. Having had my Elmo serviced many times, sometimes you still have to put it into forward, then stop it, then re-start it a few times before the capstan roller will start to automatically spin. Of course, it doesn't matter once the film is loaded and running correctly, but if the capstan roller is already running, I've found it can greatly assist correct lower loop formation when you disengage the auto thread.
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